Matt E

Member
Hello all.
Had an engine warning (orange) light appear a few months ago on my 2012 FL2 2.2TD4. Took it to the LR dealer, who confirmed the exact code and recommended a replacement EGR cooler. Exact wording: "Found code P245a-77 EGR cooler circuit and water in fuel fault also. Requires new EGR cooler and wiring repair".
However, as the quote for the work was almost the value of the vehicle, and we couldn't find another mechanic willing to do the work here in Tasmania, and there was no coolant loss, loss of power or reduced fuel economy, I decided to drive for a while and see if anything developed. The only issue that developed after a few weeks was an engine judder at around 1500. The judder disappears as soon as I take my foot off of the accelerator, or once the revs increase above 1500.
I've had the wheels balanced and realigned, but the judder remains.
Not sure if its related, but I also had the turbo actuator (new OEM) replaced a couple of months before the warning light appeared.
Really appreciate any suggestions?
Cheers
Matt
 
Hi

I don’t know what you call almost the cost of the car.

EGR valve use to leak, this engine is form Peugeot and the issue are well documented, You need to flush the coolant, a garage will ask more than 1000 euros for the job.

EGR can leak gaz in the coolant or leak coolant in the engine. Not to mention you can get overheating issue if the EGR stay closed.

For the wires without any details it’s hard to know.
 
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Hi

I don’t know what you call almost the cost of the car.

EGR valve use to leak, this engine is form Peugeot and the issue are well documented, You need to flush the coolant, a garage will ask more than 1000 euros for the job.

EGR can leak gaz in the coolant or leak coolant in the engine. Not to mention you can get overheating issue if the EGR stay closed.

For the wires without any details it’s hard to know.
Unfortunately these cars don't fetch the same price as they do in the UK, as they're not well sought after, except from ex-pats like myself.
The main dealer have quoted over 4000 Aud.
I believe that the engine is a Ford/Volvo, never heard of any mention of Peugeot from the mechanics that have worked on it though.
I've searched every thread on here that mentions the 'P245a' code, but can't find any mention of similar issues.
Really appreciate any suggestions, as the mechanic who replaced the turbo actuator won't return my calls for this current issue, after I asked if it was related to the work that he carried out. So i'm stuck with myself and my trusty 'Haynes workshop manual'.

Cheers

Matt
 
Mate, you've become an Aussie, just put a bit more effort in and google a bit further!

It is possibly just a spring that needs replacing that closed (or opens?) the cooler valve. Looks like the spring can't be purchased individually and you either need to spend your $4K or make something up.


From there...


That guy shows replacing the rotary type spring with a compression type one - but I have to say, it doesn't look like it will last long.

So check if the spring is broken....



I think the cooler/spring is a lot less accessible on Freelander. That video is really boring, but I think at the end he recommends adding a spring as in that XF forum thread.

The engine is sometimes known as a Ford Duratorq. Duratorq covers various engines, but it is a PSA unit, not Ford, they used in some of their brands at the time, including Land Rover.
 
Unfortunately these cars don't fetch the same price as they do in the UK, as they're not well sought after, except from ex-pats like myself.
The main dealer have quoted over 4000 Aud.
I believe that the engine is a Ford/Volvo, never heard of any mention of Peugeot from the mechanics that have worked on it though.
I've searched every thread on here that mentions the 'P245a' code, but can't find any mention of similar issues.
Really appreciate any suggestions, as the mechanic who replaced the turbo actuator won't return my calls for this current issue, after I asked if it was related to the work that he carried out. So i'm stuck with myself and my trusty 'Haynes workshop manual'.

Cheers

Matt

If it's not loosing coolant, and there's no performance change, then the EGR cooler isn't leaking.
A misfire can be attributed to a simple issue with the crank sensor, which is well known, and easily fixed.

The engine is a PSA unit, which is Peugeot/Citroën (designated PSA DW12), but Ford did have a hand in it's design, and manufacture of a few components (the early cam shafts that break are Ford made), most likely so they could use it without paying fees to PSA.
There's nothing Ford in the design that's obvious though, and it uses a lot of standard PSA components (valves, rockers, tappets, EGR system, injection parts, etc), so the only clue as to Ford's involvement, is the FoMoCo logo along with PSA logo on the side of the head casting.

The Freelander body itself is a Ford design, basically using parts from the same age Mondeo, so you'll find the FoMoCo logo on many body and chassis components.

There's nothing Volvo on the diesel engine at all, only the 6 cylinder petrol is from them, although the FL2 does have many electrical parts in common with the Volvo XC60 of the same age, and the body is on the same basic structure, but that's where any Volvo link ends.
 
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As for your P0245a, that's normally attributed to an electrical issue with the turbo actuator. So it could just be a damaged wire, or corroded plug, which is pretty common on all cars with hundreds of electrical connections.
 
As for your P0245a, that's normally attributed to an electrical issue with the turbo actuator. So it could just be a damaged wire, or corroded plug, which is pretty common on all cars with hundreds of electrical connections.
The turbo actuator was replaced a few months earlier, so it could be related.
 
If it's not loosing coolant, and there's no performance change, then the EGR cooler isn't leaking.
A misfire can be attributed to a simple issue with the crank sensor, which is well known, and easily fixed.

The engine is a PSA unit, which is Peugeot/Citroën (designated PSA DW12), but Ford did have a hand in it's design, and manufacture of a few components (the early cam shafts that break are Ford made), most likely so they could use it without paying fees to PSA.
There's nothing Ford in the design that's obvious though, and it uses a lot of standard PSA components (valves, rockers, tappets, EGR system, injection parts, etc), so the only clue as to Ford's involvement, is the FoMoCo logo along with PSA logo on the side of the head casting.

The Freelander body itself is a Ford design, basically using parts from the same age Mondeo, so you'll find the FoMoCo logo on many body and chassis components.

There's nothing Volvo on the diesel engine at all, only the 6 cylinder petrol is from them, although the FL2 does have many electrical parts in common with the Volvo XC60 of the same age, and the body is on the same basic structure, but that's where any Volvo link ends.
Cheers for the info mate.
 
Mate, you've become an Aussie, just put a bit more effort in and google a bit further!

It is possibly just a spring that needs replacing that closed (or opens?) the cooler valve. Looks like the spring can't be purchased individually and you either need to spend your $4K or make something up.


From there...


That guy shows replacing the rotary type spring with a compression type one - but I have to say, it doesn't look like it will last long.

So check if the spring is broken....



I think the cooler/spring is a lot less accessible on Freelander. That video is really boring, but I think at the end he recommends adding a spring as in that XF forum thread.

The engine is sometimes known as a Ford Duratorq. Duratorq covers various engines, but it is a PSA unit, not Ford, they used in some of their brands at the time, including Land Rover.

Cheers for the info and advice mate. I thought that this platform would be the place to find out, seeing that your UK group would most likely know more than others down this way :)
 
The turbo actuator was replaced a few months earlier, so it could be related.
Was the new actuator correctly set up for the turbo? Officially the actuator and turbo can't be replaced separately, as they're factory calibrated to work with each other. Fitting a replacement actuator to an old turbo can give all sorts of odd issues, for which SDD is needed to sort out, or carry out some calibration routines for replacements to work correctly.
 
Was the new actuator correctly set up for the turbo? Officially the actuator and turbo can't be replaced separately, as they're factory calibrated to work with each other. Fitting a replacement actuator to an old turbo can give all sorts of odd issues, for which SDD is needed to sort out, or carry out some calibration routines for replacements to work correctly.
The replacement actuator was installed by an independent LR specialist, so I would hope that it was calibrated correctly, but this same mechanic is now ghosting me by not answering my calls or returning my messages.
 
The replacement actuator was installed by an independent LR specialist, so I would hope that it was calibrated correctly, but this same mechanic is now ghosting me by not answering my calls or returning my messages.
I guess it depends on what LR they are specialist on. A FL2 is very different to traditional LRs, as it's very heavily reliant on electronics and electric controls.
So just because an LR specialist did the work, there's no guarantee they've done the job correctly.
 
Mate, you've become an Aussie, just put a bit more effort in and google a bit further!

It is possibly just a spring that needs replacing that closed (or opens?) the cooler valve. Looks like the spring can't be purchased individually and you either need to spend your $4K or make something up.


From there...


That guy shows replacing the rotary type spring with a compression type one - but I have to say, it doesn't look like it will last long.

So check if the spring is broken....



I think the cooler/spring is a lot less accessible on Freelander. That video is really boring, but I think at the end he recommends adding a spring as in that XF forum thread.

The engine is sometimes known as a Ford Duratorq. Duratorq covers various engines, but it is a PSA unit, not Ford, they used in some of their brands at the time, including Land Rover.

G'day again.
The spring is fine, I can open and close the cooler valve manually, but it doesn't flick open when the engine starts.
Does this mean the valve is buggered?
Cheers
 
I guess it depends on what LR they are specialist on. A FL2 is very different to traditional LRs, as it's very heavily reliant on electronics and electric controls.
So just because an LR specialist did the work, there's no guarantee they've done the job correctly.
G'day again.
So I checked the spring and mechanism on the cooler valve today. It works fine manually, but doesn't open automatically when the engine starts, which I think it should do.
Maybe I need a new valve/ cooler?
Cheers
 
G'day again.
So I checked the spring and mechanism on the cooler valve today. It works fine manually, but doesn't open automatically when the engine starts, which I think it should do.
Maybe I need a new valve/ cooler?
Cheers
The EGR valve will only open at certain points in the drive cycle, and never when the engine is below running temperature, or when idling. I'll see if I can find the information for EGR operation.
The cooler isn't part of the valve, but a separate component bolted to that simply reduces the temperature of exhaust gasses passing through it, to prevent those gasses from melting the plastic inlet manifold.
 
Would the following be worth trying before I change the EGR and/or cooler:
Before buying an expensive vacuum actuator that might not fix the issue, you need to check the mechanical condition of the EGR valve.
I have seen an issue with the return spring on the valve itself, which can break, preventing the EGR vacuum actuator from returning to its resting position. The ECM knows when the at rest position should be signalled because it's not applying vacuum, and this code is a result of the vacuum actuator being in the wrong position.

If you look at the vacuum actuator control rod, it connects to and controls the moving quadrant of the EGR valve itself. If you pull off (carefully lever under it) the ball from the quadrant, the quadrant ishould move away from the vacuum actuator under spring pressure. If it doesn't move under spring pressure, then the EGR valve needs replacing.
 
Before buying an expensive vacuum actuator that might not fix the issue, you need to check the mechanical condition of the EGR valve.
I have seen an issue with the return spring on the valve itself, which can break, preventing the EGR vacuum actuator from returning to its resting position. The ECM knows when the at rest position should be signalled because it's not applying vacuum, and this code is a result of the vacuum actuator being in the wrong position.

If you look at the vacuum actuator control rod, it connects to and controls the moving quadrant of the EGR valve itself. If you pull off (carefully lever under it) the ball from the quadrant, the quadrant ishould move away from the vacuum actuator under spring pressure. If it doesn't move under spring pressure, then the EGR valve needs replacing.
Thanks again for all your advice mate, it's very much appreciated. As you recommended, I carefully detached the ball off of the quadrant, and the ball remained in the same position, which as you suggested means I've got to buy a new EGR valve.
I also checked that the spring was fine by manually opening and closing the valve, by pushing the rod in and out. I could push the rod into the EGR, and the spring would push it back out when I released the rod.
Just to be sure though, do you think that the EGR cooler doesn't need replacement, as the code did state EGR cooler bypass error.
Massive thanks again mate, (especially as I'm not getting much help from the local LR forums or Facebook groups).
Cheers, Matt
 
Thanks again for all your advice mate, it's very much appreciated. As you recommended, I carefully detached the ball off of the quadrant, and the ball remained in the same position, which as you suggested means I've got to buy a new EGR valve.
I also checked that the spring was fine by manually opening and closing the valve, by pushing the rod in and out. I could push the rod into the EGR, and the spring would push it back out when I released the rod.
Just to be sure though, do you think that the EGR cooler doesn't need replacement, as the code did state EGR cooler bypass error.
Massive thanks again mate, (especially as I'm not getting much help from the local LR forums or Facebook groups).
Cheers, Matt
If you're not loosing coolant, then the cooler is fine. The bypass is the valve you've now checked the spring on. The code isn't to do with the cooler itself, but the EGR bypass bolted to the cooler.
As the spring is retuning the vacuum actuator to its rest position, but the ECM is still logging a code, then it's likely that the position sensor in the vacuum actuator has failed, for which a replacement actuator would be needed.
I would continuity check all the wiring between the actuator plug and ECM before buying one though, as a broken wire could give the same code.
 
If you're not loosing coolant, then the cooler is fine. The bypass is the valve you've now checked the spring on. The code isn't to do with the cooler itself, but the EGR bypass bolted to the cooler.
As the spring is retuning the vacuum actuator to its rest position, but the ECM is still logging a code, then it's likely that the position sensor in the vacuum actuator has failed, for which a replacement actuator would be needed.
I would continuity check all the wiring between the actuator plug and ECM before buying one though, as a broken wire could give the same code.
Thanks mate. Just to confirm, do you recommend a new EGR valve, or the EGR VALVE REPAIR KIT, LR082289?
 

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