[Brack]

I'll see what its like in 12 years time when its within my budget - usually around
£1K and 100,000 miles or so on the clock op2:

 

[DiscoPol]

At least we're not the ones driving a ****roen .

What can i say, i have a fetish for unreliable motors between this and my Disco I have vehicular coverage for about 70% of the year but at least the doors stay on when it gets wet(all the electrics start to smoke and feck all works, but the doors stay on)

 

[Brack]

maybe we could have a bit of fun designing our own threelander - post em up and see what we come up with

 

[WLJayne]

maybe we could have a bit of fun designing our own threelander - post em up and see what we come up with

I do like the look of the FL1, thought I would have liked to see better engineering features like:

- Low range
- Limited slip diffs
- Locking diff

That would have made it perfect imo . But there's not much the FL2 can do than the FL1 can't except make you poor faster. Terrain response is nice but it only helps if you lack off road driving skill methinks.

Cars are status symbols, and in the end it comes down to a gadgets and bling arms race.

 

[Duncp73]

Better ground clearance.

 

[DD3]

I do like the look of the FL1, thought I would have liked to see better engineering features like:

- Low range
- Limited slip diffs
- Locking diff

That would have made it perfect imo . But there's not much the FL2 can do than the FL1 can't except make you poor faster. Terrain response is nice but it only helps if you lack off road driving skill methinks.

Cars are status symbols, and in the end it comes down to a gadgets and bling arms race.

I agree with everything in your earlier post - but you cant stop this kind on "progress". As you get older you start to settle into what you are comfortable with and the marketing people move to the next set of customers. As for comparing FL1 and 2, there are some huge differences - power and on road manners just to name two.

 

[webley2000]

I agree with everything in your earlier post - but you cant stop this kind on "progress". As you get older you start to settle into what you are comfortable with and the marketing people move to the next set of Mugs. As for comparing FL1 and 2, there are some huge differences - power and on road manners just to name two.

Fixed that for you.

Thing is it doesn`t look that practicle with the sloping roof and that.
I want to be able to get the dogs in the back and all sorts of other crap.
If that makes it look a bit boxy so what.They seem to be doing what Honda did with the 3rd generation CRV.
Might as well buy an 4 wheel drive estate car,like a Skoda Octavia Scout.

 

[DD3]

I agree with everything in your earlier post - but you cant stop this kind on "progress". As you get older you start to settle into what you are comfortable with and the marketing people move to the next set of Mugs. As for comparing FL1 and 2, there are some huge differences - power and on road manners just to name two.

Fixed that for you.

Thing is it doesn`t look that practicle with the sloping roof and that.
I want to be able to get the dogs in the back and all sorts of other crap.
If that makes it look a bit boxy so what.They seem to be doing what Honda did with the 3rd generation CRV.
Might as well buy an 4 wheel drive estate car,like a Skoda Octavia Scout.

Mate of mine with D3 often describes it as a van - maybe there will still be a van type model, lets hope so. Keep seeing Kia Sportage everywhere - seems to be what the young folk want, so no point slagging these things off, though everyone entitled to opinion of course!

 

[Hippo]

Kia is cheap to buy so I assume this has a lot to do with their sudden popularity. FL2 is coming back in as the cool thing to have now now the Evoque has had it's mass marketing and the sd4 engine has answered the more power request. LR have pushed the colours a lot on Evoque advertising. Local dealer ses there's a lot of D3 owners trading in for a new FL2. We put it down the £.

 

[Singvogel]

The problem is that I think that manufacturers are strugling to maintain the cycle of consumption. Ultimately, a car has four wheels and gets you from A to B. They have to keep making more complex and more expensive models telling us they're essential to justify their continued business, when the models thet were making in the early 2000's were arguably the peak of necessary performance in terms of relative reliability and comfort.

The same is happening to mobile phones, computers, TV, cinema (do we really need 3d and HFR?) pretty much everything. Nothing is new, it's only new gimmicks. This cycle is hugely wasteful and isn't really advancing technology - that would be something like a Range Rover powered entirely by Hydrogen Fuel cells or some kind of clean reactor. The focus on gadgets is there to prevent us from moving into more sustainable and cheaper forms of technology and energy generation - they don't want us to buy a car that will last 30 years because they will then go out of business. So instead of making good Land Rovers like they always did (lasting 40 years or more), they now make more and more complex and luxurious pointless **** that has a very short life cycle to keep everyone consuming.

This cycle of compound convolution for the sake of keeping the consumer cycle model on life support is nothing short of insane, ecocidal genocide. I worry that the wheel of consumption has been turning faster and faster every decade and before too long I think it will explode somehow.

THAT's why I object to these things, ultimately.

Wow - that's some post there, Will.

It reads like a Post-Grad Thesis from someone studying 'Promotional Marketing, Planned Obsolescence & the CIA'

I've not read anything so philisophical from you before - I am duly impressed.

Mostly of course, because I agree with every word you say - and in your later post #24 where you comment on Terrain Response being helpful for those who lack off-road driving skills.

Seven years in the Desert with various LR products starting off with an ancient first generation RangeRover and ending up with a brand new 3.5 V8 110 Safari wagon on sand tyres meant I acquired pretty good off-road skills- and gave me a certain expertise born out of familiarity with a sand-shovel. Enough to make me really appreciate the ease of off-roading in a Freelander.

Thanks to this thread, I have now found out what consumer group I am truly a part of -
It's called 'The spare-wheel on the back-door generation' ound:

I think it's a illness, or perhaps a syndrome - for which there is probably no cure. :clock:

Singvogel. :hippie:

 

[Hippo]

The cycle on consumption “consumerism” has slowed over recent years due to the financial situation. There are loads of peeps out there buying new vehicles, to the extent that 2nd hand vehicles are so cheap due to a healthy supply. Older models being shipped into Europe. There are the "new bits" which peeps go for but there's also those who replace their vehicle regular because they can or want to. LR’s happy to add the latest bits so they stay at the front of the market. Peeps who buy new can be very picky when it comes to options and personalising what they think they need. As long as they’re buying new blue ones I don’t mind.

 

[webley2000]

Yes that was an excellent post Will.
How old are you.

I suppose it is an age thing but then again I have always hated style over substance.
The new mini for example.However highly people rate them I will always hate em.

There is something so reasuring about seeing a Landrover in the countryside,they always look right,unlike an Audi Q7 or BMW X5.
Plus when ever theres bad weather shown on the news theres usually a Landy
somewhere in the background,usually a Defender I admit but a Landrover.
I just hope that LR surprise us with Defender replacement when it reaches manufacturing stage and people will still be rebuilding them when they are 50 years old.]

 

[DD3]

Kia is cheap to buy so I assume this has a lot to do with their sudden popularity. FL2 is coming back in as the cool thing to have now now the Evoque has had it's mass marketing and the sd4 engine has answered the more power request. LR have pushed the colours a lot on Evoque advertising. Local dealer ses there's a lot of D3 owners trading in for a new FL2. We put it down the £.

Interesting that D3 peeps going FL2 but you can see why, for reasons you say - understand sd4 is a cracker. My pockets not deep enuf for any new 4x4 or soft roader but maybe reason for popularity of Sportage is 7 year warranty and maybe its a good car! I'm determined to get me a late D1 in the new year. Happy Christmas to all those of the "Spare Wheel on the Back Door Generation" (SWBDG) and all other LR fans, of course!

 

[WLJayne]

Wow - that's some post there, Will. I've not read anything so philisophical from you before - I am duly impressed.

Yes that was an excellent post Will.
How old are you.

Thanks guys, and to answer your question Webley I turned 26 a few days ago. But I've been around long enough and wandered far enough with a keen nose for bull**** to know that everything is connected to everything. Put enough pins in the map and suddenly you start seeing a pretty dark shape sometimes.

From the economic experientments of the mid 19th C that took the form of the brutal military dictatorships of South America, to the ongoing deliberate distabilisation of 3rd world states for cheap Coltan and other resources - everything is connected to us being able to get credit on a brand new RR sport that won't last 10 years or get a Samsung Galaxy S3 for £35 a month with o2.

We don't want to think about it, and I undertsand why, but the stuff we buy here and the people who sell it to us cause alot of pain here and elsewhere. It's not our fault, not directly, it's the monster that grew too big over time that is now too big to stop without collateral damage. People have accused me of exaguration, but if you join the dots it's all there and at the bottom of it all is money and power. Same old same old.

Am I going to live in a mud hut and give up cars and technology? Of course not. But I do think it's important for people to know how their chicken got to their plate so to speak, so that one day we can start to change the way things on this planet work. Change, real change and progress, is good - but a Land Rover that performs its task in no more measurably better way than it's older brother is not the change we need.

Keep fixing your trusty Landy's folks, they belong to a time when the business was relatively honest and things were built to last. Hold on to that.

Will.

 

[Zejmjien]

...... Or just something covering what they're really testing.

That's more like it methinks

 

[Hippo]

Wheel base on the Freelander 2 and Evoque is the same at 2660mm or 104.7inch

Freelander 2 length is 4500mm and Evoque length is 4365mm.

Pic below lines up a spy shot against a normal Evoque. Looks like the wheel base is the same but the length is offset a bit. This could simply be down to restyling the front end. The D3 to D4 upgrade reduce wind resistance by changing the front bumper and wing mirrors. This made the D4 more economical and reduced wind noise. I would assume LR will have already looked at that sort of thing with the Evoque. This may account for the slight styling change. Or it may just be testing something new and not related to the Evoque or Freelander 2. Might be a new air con pump or alternative injection cycle pattern. The cow colours on the front bumper cover all the air gaps in the bumper so you can’t see the styling.

Most tratterers complain the 90 is too small at 92.9 inch wheel base. The 110 being too big at 110 inch. They like to convert a 110 into a 100 inch wheelbase, which is very close to the Freelander 1 at 2557mm or 100.6 inch wheel base. LR has hinted many times they could replace the current tratter with a medium and long wheel base versions, rather than the current 3 options of 90 (92.9), 110 (110) and 130(127). This confirms my suspicion that the mule Evoque pictured below is probably the new tratter on road test. And we all know there’s no vehicle betterer than a Freelander to base it on.

 

[Kizzeh]

to me just looks like a long evouque. Wasnt there an interview with some bloke high up in LR in one of the LRO mags saying they were going to stretch the brands, have lots of different evoques and different freelanders.

I am aware this probably makes no sence. Its late but i shall try and find proof to back up my thoughts

Dont think its a freelander though


Edit:

Have a look and the link and see if its not number 4 on the right

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2229044/Ambitious-Land-Rover-plan-16-new-models-10billion-investment-blitz-double-production.html

 

[Hippo]

Ere's the pic kizzeh linked to above:

 

[Kizzeh]

mind you, we all know mules dont always look the same as the finished product

 

[Kizzeh]

i wonder how hard it would be for me to put a maestro van body on a freelander...