Whats happend to my clutch? Had to abandon in a field!

I was driving (fortunately past a field I rent and had a key for! miles from home).
I stopped at a junction and when I stopped I was unable to change gears by depressing the clutch - I managed to turn the engine off and put her into 1st gear and drive to the field.

When the engine is off I can put her into any gear, and start.

I was able to depress the clutch and stop moving forwards but their was a slight degree of bite, but I could not change gear. This made me think cylinder and not clutch

I checked the Master and Slave Cylinders and they had fluid, I then took the slave cylinder off and it appears to work but the fluid is silver/blackish so i have decided either way the cylinders will need replacing as something has gone in them at least.

Could it be anything else? IE could the clutch itself be an issue or would I have noticed something? Prior to this I had been rolling through all the gears as normal without issue.

and finally while taking the slave off in a field, the push rod came out, is their an easy way of getting that back on the clutch arm, under a defender, in a field, with incredibly poor access? Ive head of bits of pipe?

also is their a way of checking if the clutch is ok using the push rod? IE should i be able to push the arm with finger pressure and it return slightly ? or is the only way to put a new set of cylinders on and test them?

Typical! Also the location the bugger is in means it simply cannot be retrieved as its on an access track blocking the only access on a corner! LIFE!

Black in the fluid is an indication that one of the seals has gone.
You will not be able to push the clutch by hand. I'd suspect a seal rather than a worn clutch plate.
Did a plastic clip come out on the end of the push rod?
What age is your 90, what engine does it have and how many miles on it?

summat tells me it's broken springs on the clutch plate. Engine or gearbox-out time I'm afraid.

Could be clutch fork gone through,and now has limited movement. To get home see if you can put a new slave on. The rod with its plastic clip has to engage with fork,this is a bit of a barsteward but can be done.Getting to see what you are doing is the main problem.Exhaust off I recon. The bit of pipe slides over the rod [15mm copper ] and presses on the plastic clip to locate it. Good luck.

The landrover is a 1992 200tdi, with 170,000 on the clock. CLutch was replaced by previous owner at 140k.
I nhave had problems with the clutch cylinders before but solved tha by replacing the fluid so my current theory is as its only 4 months on from that, (it was drinking fluid for a while before stopping for some reason) that what ever was causing that fluid loss has now caused it to fail totally.

Im going to try putting a 12mm plastic pipe over the rod and plastic clip with blue tac to try and get it on to the fork. I dont know how much pressure is needed but I assume not too much as its just a tab to guide it?

Ive brought two new cylinders today, hope is replace slave in field, get home, replace master.

Out of curiosity is the slave meant to push back the master with pressure from the fork?

It does not take much pressure to fit the clip but it needs to line up right,clip holds the end of the rod in the dish on the fork.
Clutch springs push the release bearing back which presses the fork pushing the slave rod/piston sending the fluid back to master reservoir.
TIP when fitting new cylinders put a drop of fluid in before fitting.

Well in the pouring rain I have got to the point of everything in line but I still cant get the clip in- I was told by a former defender owner that the clip is only to aid asembly and I can do without it aslong as everything lines up, so With a dab of grease I got it to sit pretty and lined up.

Now the final question is push rod- Before I put the cyclinder in should it be flush with the opening of the hole or protrude bit? At the moment is sits just flush - does that mean that the clutch is effed? IE not pushing it back out or is that the right position? If so it looks to me like the clutch doesn’t travel that much in a defender?

Dcoximus said:

Well in the pouring rain I have got to the point of everything in line but I still cant get the clip in- I was told by a former defender owner that the clip is only to aid asembly and I can do without it aslong as everything lines up, so With a dab of grease I got it to sit pretty and lined up.

Now the final question is push rod- Before I put the cyclinder in should it be flush with the opening of the hole or protrude bit? At the moment is sits just flush - does that mean that the clutch is effed? IE not pushing it back out or is that the right position? If so it looks to me like the clutch doesn’t travel that much in a defender?

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you can do without the clip holding the rod as long as you can hold rod in place whilst slave is fitted, the pressure will keep it located ,if push rod can be pushed flush with opening chances are pivot has worn through release arm or bearings collapsed etc which means box out

Right Ill get back underneath in a min but I think I pushed it back abit the first time and it has stayed put?

Hmm

I was under the impression it was just the cylinder as I was able to dip the clutch and disengage the drive before I swapped the cylinders - hopefully its just the rod pushed in too far and it will come back? Is their any way to tell?

Dcoximus said:

Right Ill get back underneath in a min but I think I pushed it back abit the first time and it has stayed put?

Hmm

I was under the impression it was just the cylinder as I was able to dip the clutch and disengage the drive before I swapped the cylinders - hopefully its just the rod pushed in too far and it will come back? Is their any way to tell?

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rod shouldnt be able to be pushed flush by hand

its not moving under hand pressure sorry, its going in and its (just measured) 4mm proud of the edge of the housing once centered

Think the only thing to do is fit the slave ,bleed and give it ago.Good old two chances,either it will or it won't work.

Well I decided to replace the master as well as i figured they both need doing anyway.

AFTER Much bleeding I was able to get into all gears when the pedal is 100% onb the floor but its very difficult to get into gear, with the exception of 3rd and 5th qhich feel normal.

Ive adjusted the master cyclinder to maximum and it hasnt made much difference.

Am I right in thinking this now rules out the gearbox and clutch as its working. Also i can change gear while moving now but with some difficulty.

Now thinking back everyone has always commented how my clutch bite point is low - Im wondering if this could be ;
a) The push rod is too short so not enough travel? IE When the clutch was replaced by the previous owner in 2015 the wrong rod was used (hand written invoice and parts list from garage that did it)?
b) Would this symptom be if the clutch arm wa spunched through? My thoughts are it wouldnt respond at all? Same thinking from a friend who had it punch through.

Dcoximus said:

Well I decided to replace the master as well as i figured they both need doing anyway.

AFTER Much bleeding I was able to get into all gears when the pedal is 100% onb the floor but its very difficult to get into gear, with the exception of 3rd and 5th qhich feel normal.

Ive adjusted the master cyclinder to maximum and it hasnt made much difference.

Am I right in thinking this now rules out the gearbox and clutch as its working. Also i can change gear while moving now but with some difficulty.

Now thinking back everyone has always commented how my clutch bite point is low - Im wondering if this could be ;
a) The push rod is too short so not enough travel? IE When the clutch was replaced by the previous owner in 2015 the wrong rod was used (hand written invoice and parts list from garage that did it)?
b) Would this symptom be if the clutch arm wa spunched through? My thoughts are it wouldnt respond at all? Same thinking from a friend who had it punch through.

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since rod pushes flush with housing either rods too short or theres a reason its pushing in too far which could be pivot punching through, and issue with release bearing and or arm to bearing

My hope is that as its always been a low bite this indicates the wrong rod was used when rebuilding in 2015?
If the pivot punched through what other symptoms could I look for? Wouldnt it simply punch through and not push back anymore?

Or just air in the system. Drive it for a day or so and see if it improves.

I’ve always had to let the system self-bleed the last bit of air out.

jamesmartin said:

since rod pushes flush with housing either rods too short or theres a reason its pushing in too far which could be pivot punching through, and issue with release bearing and or arm to bearing

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JM, what's pipe from the 200 master like? I know mine on the 300 loops up and then down to the slave, so it's a right sod to bleed.

Retroanaconda said:

Or just air in the system. Drive it for a day or so and see if it improves.

I’ve always had to let the system self-bleed the last bit of air out.

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I bought a pressure bleed kit in the end.

Al2O3 said:

JM, what's pipe from the 200 master like? I know mine on the 300 loops up and then down to the slave, so it's a right sod to bleed.

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straight but theres the issue of push rod sitting flush

right im going to give it a run round the field for a few hundred meters and then if no better take a pic of the push rod?

Doies anyone have any measurements of what lenght it should be? All the part numbers dont indicate this and I thus cant order one longer!?