Twisted Performance Intercooler Upgrades - Anyone got one?

Hi all,

Ive just spoken to the guy at Twisted Performance about his
intercooler upgrades for a 200Tdi Defender.

Firstly, thy guy was very helpful and appeared very knowledgable.

He said 2 things that suprised me though:
1. They have found the more efficient direct replacement
intercoolers (i.e. same size as standard units) to be of more use
than the big "Alisport and others" options - Reason being the big
intercoolers hold too much air and so the turbos need to be tweaked
even more to drag the larger volume of air ??
2. The existing rubber hoses connected to the turbo can almost
double in size under hard acceleration (turbo active), thuis reducing
pressure and hence available air to turbo. - Suggetsed replacing these
with Silicone ones.


Point 1 above - Has anyone got any experience of comparing the two or
thoughts?

Point 2 above - I can get my head around the fact that IF the pipes
increase in size it will reduce the pressure inside them and thus less
pressure / air to turbo. BUT do the pipes really swell this amount?

Also, does the flexible pipe between the air cleaner and the turbo
reduce in cross sectional are under turbo use?


Andrew Graham at Allisport also puts a convincing argument accross for
his "big" cooler.

Perhaps they are both as good as each other and it just comes down to
location of fitting centre relative to my house??



Thanks for any thoughts.

Jon

On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 14:50:56 +0100, Jon
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Hi all,
>
>Ive just spoken to the guy at Twisted Performance about his
>intercooler upgrades for a 200Tdi Defender.
>
>Firstly, thy guy was very helpful and appeared very knowledgable.
>
>He said 2 things that suprised me though:
> 1. They have found the more efficient direct replacement
>intercoolers (i.e. same size as standard units) to be of more use
>than the big "Alisport and others" options - Reason being the big
>intercoolers hold too much air and so the turbos need to be tweaked
>even more to drag the larger volume of air ??
> 2. The existing rubber hoses connected to the turbo can almost
>double in size under hard acceleration (turbo active), thuis reducing
>pressure and hence available air to turbo. - Suggetsed replacing these
>with Silicone ones.
>
>
>Point 1 above - Has anyone got any experience of comparing the two or
>thoughts?
>
>Point 2 above - I can get my head around the fact that IF the pipes
>increase in size it will reduce the pressure inside them and thus less
>pressure / air to turbo. BUT do the pipes really swell this amount?
>
>Also, does the flexible pipe between the air cleaner and the turbo
>reduce in cross sectional are under turbo use?
>
>
>Andrew Graham at Allisport also puts a convincing argument accross for
>his "big" cooler.
>
>Perhaps they are both as good as each other and it just comes down to
>location of fitting centre relative to my house??
>
>
>
>Thanks for any thoughts.
>
>Jon

And here was silly me thinking the intercooler was AFTER the turbo...,
and hence, the bigger the volume, the lesser the restriction, and
therefor less pressure drop !

Peter R.

Peter R. wrote:

>
> And here was silly me thinking the intercooler was AFTER the turbo...,
> and hence, the bigger the volume, the lesser the restriction, and
> therefor less pressure drop !

Within limits you're right, but pressure drop is easy to compensate for,
but the lag induced by a larger intercooler (more air to compress when
coming on boost) is harder to fix. I'd tend to check the stated airflow
& thermal dissipation rates for both types and make my decision based on
that.

--
EMB
change two to number to reply

Hi jon
I went for the alli sport"big one" on my 300 disco It made a big difference
to the performance and reduced the turbo lag massively and you get to keep
your old one so it can be converted back to standard when selling. Twisted
perfomance work on a exchange bassis.
Hope this helps
Icky
"EMB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Peter R. wrote:
>
> >
> > And here was silly me thinking the intercooler was AFTER the turbo...,
> > and hence, the bigger the volume, the lesser the restriction, and
> > therefor less pressure drop !
>
> Within limits you're right, but pressure drop is easy to compensate for,
> but the lag induced by a larger intercooler (more air to compress when
> coming on boost) is harder to fix. I'd tend to check the stated airflow
> & thermal dissipation rates for both types and make my decision based on
> that.
>
> --
> EMB
> change two to number to reply

On or around Mon, 23 Aug 2004 17:37:27 GMT, Peter R. <[email protected]>
enlightened us thusly:

>Point 2 above - I can get my head around the fact that IF the pipes
>>increase in size it will reduce the pressure inside them and thus less
>>pressure / air to turbo. BUT do the pipes really swell this amount?

yep.

open the bonnet, fire 'er up, and apply welly by means of the lever on the
pump, watching the turbo pipes as you do - when the boost starts to come in,
you'll see them expand a bit. And that, unless you really rev it, is not
full boost.

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
Appearances: You don't really need make-up. Celebrate your authentic
face by frightening people in the street.
from the Little Book of Complete B***ocks by Alistair Beaton.

Plus they are a bit more expensive than Andy.

In case anyone is interested I do have a two stage intercooler (the one that
goes in series with the stock positioned one) up for sale.
Bought it so that I could install it in one of my ex CT Discos only to find
out that the winch and skid plate are sitting where it should be located.

The unit was bought secondhand and comes complete with the hoses and
metallic tubes. It is suitable for 300Tdi Discos and I would be happy to
sell it for 150 pounds plus shipping to wherever you are by Greek post or
courier ( it is your decision after I quote the cost)

Take care
Pantelis

"the ickys" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hi jon
> I went for the alli sport"big one" on my 300 disco It made a big
difference
> to the performance and reduced the turbo lag massively and you get to keep
> your old one so it can be converted back to standard when selling. Twisted
> perfomance work on a exchange bassis.
> Hope this helps
> Icky
> "EMB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Peter R. wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > And here was silly me thinking the intercooler was AFTER the turbo...,
> > > and hence, the bigger the volume, the lesser the restriction, and
> > > therefor less pressure drop !
> >
> > Within limits you're right, but pressure drop is easy to compensate for,
> > but the lag induced by a larger intercooler (more air to compress when
> > coming on boost) is harder to fix. I'd tend to check the stated airflow
> > & thermal dissipation rates for both types and make my decision based on
> > that.
> >
> > --
> > EMB
> > change two to number to reply
>
>

Jon <[email protected]> wrote:

> 1. They have found the more efficient direct replacement
> intercoolers (i.e. same size as standard units) to be of more use
> than the big "Alisport and others" options - Reason being the big
> intercoolers hold too much air and so the turbos need to be tweaked
> even more to drag the larger volume of air ??

Forget it, thoursands of tuned and tweaked turbo-engines benefit from
larger intercoolers. Every single of them. Proofen through tests on the
rolling road. So forget all rubbish about beeing them not as good as a
smaller unit. Cooler air means an enormous amount of more hp to get out
of any engine, normally aspirated or turbo.

Raoul
--
..sig-Simulator 0.07ß
==To e-mail me exchange das_liest_keiner with anything else==
****This space to rent****Hier könnte Ihre Werbung stehen****

In message <[email protected]>, Pantelis Giamarellos
<[email protected]> writes

>The unit was bought secondhand and comes complete with the hoses and
>metallic tubes. It is suitable for 300Tdi Discos and I would be happy to
>sell it for 150 pounds plus shipping to wherever you are by Greek post or
>courier ( it is your decision after I quote the cost)

Would it fit a 1995 (non a/c) 300tdi defender with front mounted
hydraulic winch?

--
Regards
Graham Jones

Graham Hi,

I am sorry but I can not give you a positive reply on that.

This second stage intercooler is made for a 300Tdi Discovery and it is to be
positioned on the Disco bodyshell right above the front first crossmember
but on the bodyshell.

To be frant with you I do not think that it would fit your Defender
especially since it is already pretty crowded at the front with the
hydraulic winch.

Take care
Pantelis

"Graham Jones" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In message <[email protected]>, Pantelis Giamarellos
> <[email protected]> writes
>
> >The unit was bought secondhand and comes complete with the hoses and
> >metallic tubes. It is suitable for 300Tdi Discos and I would be happy to
> >sell it for 150 pounds plus shipping to wherever you are by Greek post or
> >courier ( it is your decision after I quote the cost)
>
> Would it fit a 1995 (non a/c) 300tdi defender with front mounted
> hydraulic winch?
>
> --
> Regards
> Graham Jones

I can only say that the full frontal larger intercooler fitted back in 1996
on my first 200Tdi Discovery give a far better "feel of pants" performance
increase than a more freely flowing standard sized replacement intercooler
mounted on another 200Tdi discovery of a friend of mine.

Take care
Pantelis

"Raoul Donschachner" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:1gj0q4v.1ta0mka24ksgsN%[email protected]...
> Jon <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > 1. They have found the more efficient direct replacement
> > intercoolers (i.e. same size as standard units) to be of more use
> > than the big "Alisport and others" options - Reason being the big
> > intercoolers hold too much air and so the turbos need to be tweaked
> > even more to drag the larger volume of air ??
>
> Forget it, thoursands of tuned and tweaked turbo-engines benefit from
> larger intercoolers. Every single of them. Proofen through tests on the
> rolling road. So forget all rubbish about beeing them not as good as a
> smaller unit. Cooler air means an enormous amount of more hp to get out
> of any engine, normally aspirated or turbo.
>
> Raoul
> --
> .sig-Simulator 0.07ß
> ==To e-mail me exchange das_liest_keiner with anything else==
> ****This space to rent****Hier könnte Ihre Werbung stehen****

In message <[email protected]>, Pantelis Giamarellos
<[email protected]> writes

>To be frant with you I do not think that it would fit your Defender
>especially since it is already pretty crowded at the front with the
>hydraulic winch.

Thanks anyway Pantelis.


--
Regards
Graham Jones

On or around Thu, 26 Aug 2004 10:59:23 +0200, "Aubrey" <[email protected]>
enlightened us thusly:

>The effect of ballooning of the pipes is noticable under heavy boost, full
>thottle. Assuming the pipe is 2 inch dia, to double the effective volume of
>the pipe, requires the pipe to balloon to just under 2.75 inches. Must admit
>I have never measured it but cannot recall such a drastic increase in dia.
>That much would be obvious.

I could believe it - having noticed them swell slightly under part-boost
off-load. Most vehicles don't give you the chance to see the pipes under
full load at full revs.

Mind, I'm fairly convinced the thing about it affecting the pressure is
bollocks. The only thing it can do is increase the turbo lag slightly, once
the pipe has ballooned to X" diameter, it's then gonna stay the same;
besides, it's the presence of pressure that makes it balloon, if it does,
and therefore you must have the pressure there. The only thing that can
affect the airflow into the engine is if the air is leaking out through the
pipes.

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
Blue: The sky is blue for a reason. Blue light is a source of strength
and harmony in the cosmos. Create a blue light in your life by
telephoning the police
from the Little Book of Complete B***ocks by Alistair Beaton.

Jon <[email protected]> wrote:

> 1. They have found the more efficient direct replacement
> intercoolers (i.e. same size as standard units) to be of more use
> than the big "Alisport and others" options - Reason being the big
> intercoolers hold too much air and so the turbos need to be tweaked
> even more to drag the larger volume of air ??

Forget it, thoursands of tuned and tweaked turbo-engines benefit from
larger intercoolers. Every single of them. Proofen through tests on the
rolling road. So forget all rubbish about beeing them not as good as a
smaller unit. Cooler air means an enormous amount of more hp to get out
of any engine, normally aspirated or turbo.

Raoul
--
..sig-Simulator 0.07ß
==To e-mail me exchange das_liest_keiner with anything else==
****This space to rent****Hier könnte Ihre Werbung stehen****

Jon <[email protected]> wrote:

> 1. They have found the more efficient direct replacement
> intercoolers (i.e. same size as standard units) to be of more use
> than the big "Alisport and others" options - Reason being the big
> intercoolers hold too much air and so the turbos need to be tweaked
> even more to drag the larger volume of air ??

Forget it, thoursands of tuned and tweaked turbo-engines benefit from
larger intercoolers. Every single of them. Proofen through tests on the
rolling road. So forget all rubbish about beeing them not as good as a
smaller unit. Cooler air means an enormous amount of more hp to get out
of any engine, normally aspirated or turbo.

Raoul
--
..sig-Simulator 0.07ß
==To e-mail me exchange das_liest_keiner with anything else==
****This space to rent****Hier könnte Ihre Werbung stehen****