turbo or waste gate or both

As usual, im a new member, joined to discuss a fault - please dont all go derrrrr thats obvious you dimlow, Im an engineer by trade but not a mechanic and would hate to bugger things up.

I have a freelander 2.0 td4 on a BT54 plate

2 days ago I noticed the tone had changed on my turbo, more of an air rush than the usual turbo whistle/whine - it reminded me of the sound of putting the console fan on full blast - but sat in the drivers seat it was coming from in the engine compartment

The turbo may be shot, but im trying to rule out all other possibilities first.

the computer is giving a fault code of P0046 - turbo solenoid operating issue.

the car idles fine and when accelerating gently is fine, however the moment i hear the turbo start spooling up i get excessive black smoke and acceleration is sluggish. At 50 mph i get the worst symptoms, the turbo sounds like it is "on the hairy edge" coming in and out every few seconds even when at constant speed. At 70mph the smoke reduces and the car drives ok - little bit of smoke though.

another problem - which may be a side issue... I think I may have fuel ingress into the oil. It dipped half an inch over high level yesterday so i drained some off.

here come the questions..

1. with the turbo spooling fine does this sound like a turbo or waste gate/solenoid issue.
2. is it best practice to change both at the same time
3. does the fuel ingress sound like leakage from the full pump into the crank case (to be honest i couldnt smell diesel but there was no emulsification and the coolant level is steady)
4. Could fuel thinnig the oil and the subsequent rise in oil level result in a reduced oil pressure sufficient to effect the operation of the turbo
5. could it be something as daft as the waste gate vent filter fouled (wishful thinking it would be something that simple)

Im sorry if this first thread is just a pile of questions

regards

Lee

First off Lee - :welcome2: to the crazy LandyZone.

Two things to eliminate first, in my experience.
1. pcv - have you got the BMW cyclone/vortex type fitted?

2. On idle take out the dipstick a centimetre or so and see if any oil leaks out - it absolutely should not do this. On a fast idle you could also slowly remove the oil-filler cap and check for any pressure by putting your hand over the hole.

3. Turbo hoses - check for splits - get someone to rev the engine a bit and check them if nothing is obvious at first look.

Check these first - I'm sure someone will be along soon with more knowledge/experience and alternative suggestions.

Thanks Singvogel, will check in a minute (my chicken has just delivered me a fresh egg so the mrs is putting it in the frying pan as we speak)

ok, checked the following,

wastegate breather filter is clear
no oil spitting from dipstick tube on idle
placing my hand over the filler cap with engine idling gives a steady poff poff poff of positive pressure in time with the engine (do you like my technical terms)

I have checked the oil again - spot on what it was yesterday after I drained some (subsequently drove 90 miles home after the draining yesterday)

Thinking back, I did put a bottle of engine treatment in last month, I wonder if that took it over?

I cant see what make the solenoid is, its too far down the back of the engine to get to at the moment

The little plastic filter thing at the back left of the engine is the turbocharger boost control solenoid vent filter ( long name for such a tiddly wee filter)

That's not the one I was meaning. If you're unsure as to the negative effects of a blocked pcv filter just do a search on here for 'pcv' - pretty nasty, and there is a BMW mod available which fixes it pretty much forever.

Before you go checking solenoid and sensors I'd check the pcv first - if you've never changed it - it is high on the list of possibles. It was never on the LR service schedule, so many people are still running on the original!!!!!

I have a freelander 2.0 td4 on a BT54 plate

Sorry , but have I made an error here?

How old a Freelander are we discussing here?

I was thinking the BMW TD4 1951cc M47R engine.

My apologies if this is not your engine.

I know nothing about troubleshooting on the PSA Peugeot Citroën engine.

not sure what engine this is, date of registration Dec 2004.
Had a chat with a mechanic friend, he thinks I may have overfilled the oil - which has caused the turbo to draw in liquid through the intercooler, filling and possibly crudding up the vanes in the turbo - probably popping the shaft seal on it. Looks like i will be nipping into the village tomorrow after all - the garage is breaking a freelander so might get the bits off that

OK if it's 2004 and diesel it's a BMW engine.
I was confused by your putting Freelander 2 and LR2 in the thread heading, so had to double check the age.

What your mechanic friend is suggesting is highly unlikely -unless you had overfilled by a huge amount. These Mitsubishi Turbos are pretty reliable and hardy.

Your smoke symptoms are typical of those caused by a blocked or partially blocked pcv. I would not spend time and/or money replacing any turbo parts until I was sure the pcv was OK and preferable fitted with the BMW mod part.

i think the 2(LR2) was an autofill - or i ticked the wrong box. I will check the pcv
thanks for your help

One other thing - your turbo has no waste gate - it's a variable vane Mitsubishi. The solenoid and vacuum pipes control the vanes.

Good luck.

that ties in with the fault reader when it says turbo solenoid function issue

Exactly, yes, but the issue is likely to be caused by a blocked pcv, not necessarily a failed solenoid. If you check hoses, change the pcv and it's no better, then go for the solenoid, if still no better, then seek expert turbo advice.

Best check the cheapest easiest part first.

If you take this to a LR dealer they will immediately say kaput turbo, £650 + fitting + VAT, please. They'll also change the pcv filter with another old-style cotton element job (which will last only a short while) as a matter of routine, and advise new hoses.

I changed the oil and took it for a 20 miles run in the country lanes, the extra viscosity helped, the smoke has reduced and the performance has improved, but its definately still not right - although the turbo doesnt sound rough in any way, the P0046 fault reappeared half way along (Turbo/Super Charger Boost Control Solenoid Circuit Range/Performance)
lets see what the man in the garage says tomorrow

Yup, light off and then coming back on again after a bit confirms what I thought - build up of pressure - your poff, poff, poff, should not be like that, - so throws the system into confusion -99% sure it's the pcv.

ok, this may be a dafty question but..

should the PCV filter be connected at both ends, mine only has a hose connected one side

hang on im talking about the wrong thing here, im on about the filter attached to the boost solenoid - i think, clear plastic thing behind the engine with a paper element, is that supposed to just dangle in the wind?

Are you loosing power on hills and over 70 mph and does the engine management light come on as if so a less common problem is a cat blocking up, we had one that had us scratching our heads, once we had de-gutted the cat all the problems were solved

i can comfotably cruise at 80 once i get there, it just takes a while - and yes struggles on hills - however the cat & exhaust system all look brand new (stainless)

the car idles fine and when accelerating gently is fine, however the moment i hear the turbo start spooling up i get excessive black smoke and acceleration is sluggish. At 50 mph i get the worst symptoms, the turbo sounds like it is "on the hairy edge" coming in and out every few seconds even when at constant speed. At 70mph the smoke reduces and the car drives ok - little bit of smoke though

What you describe here is classic intercooler pipework leakage symptoms. The overfull oil level has probably led to the fault code being generated.

We are talking about two different things here - the little filter that just hangs down at the back corner is the turbo solenoid vent filter - it should indeed be open at one end - i.e.connected to nothing - it is truly a vent.

The pcv filter I am talking about is a different thing altogether. Some people refer to it as a 'crankcase breather'. BMW call it an 'oil separator'. It catches the oil which would otherwise get to the turbo in excess and be blown right through the whole intake system and create smoke. Just like your problem.

Here are some recent links which will explain what I'm on about:

http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/f9/filter-help-169738.html

http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/f9/bmw-crankcase-breather-170050.html

and one from another forum - same BMW engine you (and I) have:

Blue Smoke & a number of questions. Please help! - The 75 and ZT Owners Club Forums

If you read though all the posts you will have very good idea of what to do to fix the problem you have.

I'm 99% sure.

EDIT; I've just read Dann's post - he is right - that was my number 3 suggestion in my first reply to you.