Hicap phill
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It’s cus I don’t have time to work on it…
Starter motor or starter solenoid failure?
- Thread starter dag019
- Start date
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This is definitely the answer, but alas something that I have already done, it starts immediately if I can get the engine turning. When I realized the starter had failed I bump started it on my own by getting it rolling down the road and then jumping in to put it in gear (2nd). Even though it slowed in the process of getting in and getting in gear it still fired up with no issues first try. The engine has just had a light recon as part of my larger rebuild after the engine fire.
I will hopefully has the new started fitted this evening, I managed to removed the exhaust down pipe at lunchtime so after work just need to swap the starters over and exhaust wrap the down pipe as it sits closer the the bulkhead with no heat shielding than I would like (disco 200tdi conversion in a "defender" with the spiral downpipe).
On refitting it I had a separate problem which is also a problem I have on the td5. The starter relay appears to have a loose connection somewhere. This is not what caused the non start issue before that is suggested. The spades are all tight and catch the relay well, the relay is working correctly, all wires are correct, and 12v is being seen everywhere it should be. but a little wiggle on the relay can make it not spin the starter (or in the td5 not initiate the fuel pump) and then another wiggle and it is working again. Anyone have any suggestions which are not tightening the spades (already done), reseating the spades in the plastic plug (already done), or changing the relay (already done)?
tottot
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Any chance it could be poor connection at the batter or earth ? You can find 12v on a check but a demand for a heavy load can result in no action if there is a poor connection.
All the earth straps are new 70mm welding cable that I made us as part of The rebuild and there are farm more of them than there should be. Also everything else on the loom works with no issue so don’t think it is one of The dash loom earth point either.
tottot
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Just asking as had some sport with starter on my Massy Ferguson the other day, in the end just a tweek on the nut of the main stater connection sorted it. Later had a proper clean up.
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Something I've noticed with relays on my TD5 is that wobbling them makes them switch on and off. I think it's something that happens to them as they get elderly and approach the point of failure. It seems to especially affect the yellow ones. I have replaced some of them with new ones and they're much steadier in performance. Another thing that occasionally affects starting on my TD5 is the small wire that goes onto a spade connector on the starter solenoid. Sometimes this doesn't make very good contact so the starter fails to turn. When I first got the Land Rover I thought this was an immobiliser fault, and it was only after much wobbling of wiring looms that I narrowed it down to this connection.
That is exactly the issue I am having with both the starter relay on the 110 and the fuel pump relay on the TD5! I am glad I am not alone I thought I was going mad.
Both are the standard yellow relay, the TD5 had a new relay fitted and this cured the problem for about 9 months and then it came back. The 110 starter relay is not new so will swap that out and see if it improves. If it is a precursor to failure surely I would be expecting more than a 9 month lifespan even if that 9 months is about 25k miles?
Also extra annoying if the above is the case as I have about 10 good used relays on the shelf as spares and use the standard yellow relays for all of the additional equipment to keep things standard and interchangeable. Can you get an equivalent higher quality relay to swap everything out with?
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I see the relays range in price from about a tenner to £3. I think they're part no. YWB10012L. Are the more expensive ones apt to last longer I wonder?
It's also possible to get relays with the same pin pattern but different pins operate the switch and carry the load to the accessory. The standard off the shelf ones in Halfords, for example. So these days I try to remember to check the little diagram which is embossed or printed on the casing. I'm sure you all know this anyway, but I'm just trying to prevent anyone wasting as much time as I have.
It's also possible to get relays with the same pin pattern but different pins operate the switch and carry the load to the accessory. The standard off the shelf ones in Halfords, for example. So these days I try to remember to check the little diagram which is embossed or printed on the casing. I'm sure you all know this anyway, but I'm just trying to prevent anyone wasting as much time as I have.
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I have just fitted a new to me engine (disco 200tdi) as part of my rebuild after the fire, I do not know the mileage on it but looking at the condition I think it was fairly low. I gave it a light top end rebuild and bottom end check over before installing. However I only fitted a new engine because of the fire. If it hadn't have been for that I would still be using my "original" discovery 200tdi which was fitted at 120k at which point the engine had about 120k on it, so the odometer more or less matched the engine. The fire was at 380k. It got meticulously serviced (oil and filters) every 6k miles, a cam belt every 50k (had one snap just as I was putting together the order for parts before the 72k interval so now change early), and other than a light top end rebuild and some cam followers after the snapped belt has had no other major work. I was planning on getting a donor to fit, and rebuilding my engine at about 450-500k so the fire just accelerated that. I plan on rebuilding the fire damaged engine and dropping it back in once rebuilt.
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So you're getting quite a lot of miles out of the standard 200 tdi units. That's pretty much what I'm doing with my TD5 - changing the oil and filters every 6,000 miles - and it's still going strong after 153,000. Maybe it sounds a little more 'clattery' than when I first got it, but aside from that I wouldn't know it had been the equivalent of six times round the world. I'm still toying with the idea of getting a spare secondhand engine and giving it some new seals and bearing shells and whatever else it seems to need so it's ready to swap in should I need to do so. But then I seem to spend all my spare time building sheds and fences and planting trees on my smallholding project these days.
I am following your thread one that so I am aware you the land rover is secondary to you woodland ambitions.
For me it is gearboxes that cause me more issues than the engine. I seem to only get 60-80k out of an lt77 Ashcroft rebuild before it needs to go back to them for another one. When I complained about this on here previously though James Martin pointed out that when the box was designed 60k was a lot of miles and probably about right for needing to be rebuilt. So I just accept it. I think if well maintained the engine is so simple it will go on almost indefinitely. I am less convinced about the td5’s
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Well, I dunno if it's 'secondary'! It's just been pretty well behaved lately so I've had less time underneath it. I've done some planned maintenance such as the reconditioned R380 I put in it in January 2021, and I did the steering swivels and brakes in September 2020 and I'm still in the process of wearing these components out before they need doing again. I suppose I should really have the transfer box out again because it's leaking from the centre shaft, but for the moment I just keep topping it up. I'll wait 'til it's in need of some mechanical repair so as to make it worth my while. Maybe next time I do the steering swivels I'll get new CV joints as well, but for the moment at least there is no sign of death watch beetle when I drive around on full lock, so they're nice and quiet. So at present it's more like a sort of programme of anticipated replacement of stuff I know only lasts for a few years.
just to put your mind at ease a little the CV joints is not something I have ever done and based on the rest of the vehicle I doubt they were done in the 120k before me so mine have happily done 380k and are still performing well with no strange noises. just make sure the swivel is always full of oil/oneshot
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Oh yes, they're very greasy. I did the steering swivel bearings at the end of 2014 and the CV joints had no detectable slack at all. I did them again (and changed the balls) in September 2020 and there was a tiny bit of slack. I've seen Youtube influencer Mr Britannia Restorations put considerably slacker ones back in customers' cars saying the were perfectly alright, so at present rate of wear they should last for a while yet. In 2014 also I swapped to limited slip diff mechanisms. I put new diff bearings on, but the crown wheel and pinions are original. At that point (70,000 miles) they still had the factory machining marks visible on them. I've not had them apart since then, but I assume they're OK, as there are no untoward noises. So a good deal of the mechanical parts seem to be OK so far.
I realise we've rather gone off topic with this thread, but I'm interested in how people manage with Land Rovers as high mileage everyday vehicles.
mystery
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the problem with the relay could be the actual relay holder at the end of the day they are just spade connections and loosen over time and the more you wiggle them the looser they get as they are retained by a simple barb on the back of the spade simply bent outwards to stop the connection sliding backwards out of the holders .They can be removed from the holder and the connection contacts squeezed to tighten them.
the yellow relay have a tendency of breaking their soldered internal connections if forced sideways(wiggling them) whilst in the holder quite simple to check by carefully removing the plastic case and re soldered if required
the yellow relay have a tendency of breaking their soldered internal connections if forced sideways(wiggling them) whilst in the holder quite simple to check by carefully removing the plastic case and re soldered if required
Not sure if I mentioned earlier in the thread but I have already done this. Interesting information on the yellow relays however which brings me back to a previous question about if there are any better quality relays that could be used to replace them?
I think part of the problem is what we consider high mileage in this country is a very low threshold as we are quite a little country. There is still a big deal of crossing 100k (especially if buying second hand) which is fairly silly. If you look on the continent and especially in the US you will find lots of vehicles with over 200k and into the higher figures as just the norm where as in this country there seems to be the misnomer that over 100k is high and over 200k is end of life and needs to be cosseted and nursed along. as long as vehicles are maintained the mechanicals are quite capable of very high mileages. Our issue is corrosion as we are a cold island nation that uses lots of salt but even that has improved hugely compared to the vehicles of the 70's which would disintegrate before your eyes.
