SIII problem selecting Gears

Hi,

We have just purchased a 1981 SIII SWB 2.25 Petrol Land Rover. We have a
problem that when the engine is idling, it is near impossible to select any
gears. If the transfer box is put into neutral, then we can select any
gear, and then put transfer box back into gear, with no problem.

Once moving, we can select any gear, and the gearbox changes up and down the
gears with out any problems. There is a Fairey O/D fitted, and this seems
to be working OK.

Any ideas what could be causing the problems with the initial selection of
gears ?

Many Thanks

Andy

On 2006-04-18, Andy <[email protected]> wrote:

> We have just purchased a 1981 SIII SWB 2.25 Petrol Land Rover. We have a
> problem that when the engine is idling, it is near impossible to select any
> gears. If the transfer box is put into neutral, then we can select any
> gear, and then put transfer box back into gear, with no problem.

Sounds like a dragging clutch, try putting it on the level, selecting
first, pushing the clutch in and taking your handbrake and wheel
brakes off and seeing if you creep forwards.

Also try pushing the clutch pedal down further when you change gear
initially.

To fix, find out why it's not disengaging properly, unless you've been
messing with the adjustment it's most likely a problem in master or
slave cylinder.

--
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!

In message <[email protected]>
"Andy" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> We have just purchased a 1981 SIII SWB 2.25 Petrol Land Rover. We have a
> problem that when the engine is idling, it is near impossible to select any
> gears. If the transfer box is put into neutral, then we can select any
> gear, and then put transfer box back into gear, with no problem.
>
> Once moving, we can select any gear, and the gearbox changes up and down the
> gears with out any problems. There is a Fairey O/D fitted, and this seems
> to be working OK.
>
> Any ideas what could be causing the problems with the initial selection of
> gears ?
>
> Many Thanks
>
> Andy
>
>

Has the clutch been out recently? I ask as one of the (many!) possible
causes is the little nylon bush that goes in the clutch arm pivot is
missing, which can give symptoms you describe - but then so can air
in the slave cylinder (is the bleed nipple at the top - exactly where
its a bugger to get at) and badly set end-float on the pedal (is the
pedal at the right height?), and "tired" fingers on the clutch cover.
and a partially melted release bearing holder, and does it have the
right oil in it (EP90), and..... well, it goes on a bit....

Richard

--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
RISC-OS - Where have all the good guys gone?
Boycott the Yorkshire Dales - No Play, No Pay

Andy wrote:
> Hi,
>
> We have just purchased a 1981 SIII SWB 2.25 Petrol Land Rover. We
> have a problem that when the engine is idling, it is near impossible
> to select any gears. If the transfer box is put into neutral, then
> we can select any gear, and then put transfer box back into gear,
> with no problem.
> Once moving, we can select any gear, and the gearbox changes up and
> down the gears with out any problems. There is a Fairey O/D fitted,
> and this seems to be working OK.
>
> Any ideas what could be causing the problems with the initial
> selection of gears ?
>
> Many Thanks
>
> Andy

What happens if the first gear you try to engage is reverse? Crunchy noises
or not?

Karen

--
"I'd far rather be happy than right any day."
- Slartibartfast

Hi,

If reverse is selected, it goes in without any bother or noise, but then
going from reverse to 1st or 2nd is not always possible. Think I will
replace the slave cylinder as I have a new spare, and see if that improves
the situation, unless you have any other ideas ?

Andy


"Karen Gallagher" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Andy wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> We have just purchased a 1981 SIII SWB 2.25 Petrol Land Rover. We
>> have a problem that when the engine is idling, it is near impossible
>> to select any gears. If the transfer box is put into neutral, then
>> we can select any gear, and then put transfer box back into gear,
>> with no problem.
>> Once moving, we can select any gear, and the gearbox changes up and
>> down the gears with out any problems. There is a Fairey O/D fitted,
>> and this seems to be working OK.
>>
>> Any ideas what could be causing the problems with the initial
>> selection of gears ?
>>
>> Many Thanks
>>
>> Andy
>
> What happens if the first gear you try to engage is reverse? Crunchy
> noises or not?
>
> Karen
>
> --
> "I'd far rather be happy than right any day."
> - Slartibartfast
>

Andy wrote:
> Hi,
>
> If reverse is selected, it goes in without any bother or noise, but then
> going from reverse to 1st or 2nd is not always possible. Think I will
> replace the slave cylinder as I have a new spare, and see if that improves
> the situation, unless you have any other ideas ?

I wouldn't bother - if it'll go straight into reverse without any noise
there's nothing wrong with the clutch assembly.

I'd be changing the gearbox oil for ordinary EP90 and then driving it
for a few miles to see if it settles down.


--
EMB

EMB wrote:

> Andy wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> If reverse is selected, it goes in without any bother or noise, but
>> then going from reverse to 1st or 2nd is not always possible. Think I
>> will replace the slave cylinder as I have a new spare, and see if that
>> improves the situation, unless you have any other ideas ?
>
>
> I wouldn't bother - if it'll go straight into reverse without any noise
> there's nothing wrong with the clutch assembly.
>
> I'd be changing the gearbox oil for ordinary EP90 and then driving it
> for a few miles to see if it settles down.

I am also of the opinion that the clutch is not involved.

I think that the clue may be in your comment that with the transfer box
in neutral there is no problem. The overdrive may also be involved.

Could you repeat your tests with the overdrive in neutral but the
transfer box still engaged? I'm not expecting anything different but you
never know ....

The general line of thinking is that fitting the overdrive (any idea if
it was done recently?) can upset the end float in the mainshaft which
could adversely affect the first/second synchro area. The installation
may have been poor, something loose, end float not set up correctly, tab
washer missing (it's slightly different with the overdrive as it needs
to fit inside the overdrive input gear).

The next step might be to remove the overdrive and check that area - not
too difficult to do.

Dougal wrote:

> EMB wrote:
>
>> Andy wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> If reverse is selected, it goes in without any bother or noise, but
>>> then going from reverse to 1st or 2nd is not always possible. Think
>>> I will replace the slave cylinder as I have a new spare, and see if
>>> that improves the situation, unless you have any other ideas ?
>>
>>
>>
>> I wouldn't bother - if it'll go straight into reverse without any
>> noise there's nothing wrong with the clutch assembly.
>>
>> I'd be changing the gearbox oil for ordinary EP90 and then driving it
>> for a few miles to see if it settles down.
>
>
> I am also of the opinion that the clutch is not involved.
>
> I think that the clue may be in your comment that with the transfer box
> in neutral there is no problem. The overdrive may also be involved.
>
> Could you repeat your tests with the overdrive in neutral but the
> transfer box still engaged? I'm not expecting anything different but you
> never know ....
>
> The general line of thinking is that fitting the overdrive (any idea if
> it was done recently?) can upset the end float in the mainshaft which
> could adversely affect the first/second synchro area. The installation
> may have been poor, something loose, end float not set up correctly, tab
> washer missing (it's slightly different with the overdrive as it needs
> to fit inside the overdrive input gear).
>
> The next step might be to remove the overdrive and check that area - not
> too difficult to do.

Adding just a bit more -

So far three situations have been tried:
- stationary - transfer gear engaged
- stationary - transfer gear disengaged
- mobile - transfer gear engaged

The difference is that in the first (and problematical case) the
mainshaft is held stationary. There's something stopping first and
second engaging cleanly which points to the first/second synchro area.
Either there is something fundamentally faulty there (I hope not) or it
is being affected by something external e.g. a mainshaft end float problem.

Wow, so much to think about. I can see many hours ahead staring at the
various boxes under the SIII.

Thank you to everyone for your input. Will keep you posted when I do find
the problem.

Regards

Andy

"Dougal" <DougalAThiskennel.free-online.co.uk> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Dougal wrote:
>
>> EMB wrote:
>>
>>> Andy wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> If reverse is selected, it goes in without any bother or noise, but
>>>> then going from reverse to 1st or 2nd is not always possible. Think I
>>>> will replace the slave cylinder as I have a new spare, and see if that
>>>> improves the situation, unless you have any other ideas ?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I wouldn't bother - if it'll go straight into reverse without any noise
>>> there's nothing wrong with the clutch assembly.
>>>
>>> I'd be changing the gearbox oil for ordinary EP90 and then driving it
>>> for a few miles to see if it settles down.
>>
>>
>> I am also of the opinion that the clutch is not involved.
>>
>> I think that the clue may be in your comment that with the transfer box
>> in neutral there is no problem. The overdrive may also be involved.
>>
>> Could you repeat your tests with the overdrive in neutral but the
>> transfer box still engaged? I'm not expecting anything different but you
>> never know ....
>>
>> The general line of thinking is that fitting the overdrive (any idea if
>> it was done recently?) can upset the end float in the mainshaft which
>> could adversely affect the first/second synchro area. The installation
>> may have been poor, something loose, end float not set up correctly, tab
>> washer missing (it's slightly different with the overdrive as it needs to
>> fit inside the overdrive input gear).
>>
>> The next step might be to remove the overdrive and check that area - not
>> too difficult to do.
>
> Adding just a bit more -
>
> So far three situations have been tried:
> - stationary - transfer gear engaged
> - stationary - transfer gear disengaged
> - mobile - transfer gear engaged
>
> The difference is that in the first (and problematical case) the mainshaft
> is held stationary. There's something stopping first and second engaging
> cleanly which points to the first/second synchro area. Either there is
> something fundamentally faulty there (I hope not) or it is being affected
> by something external e.g. a mainshaft end float problem.

Andy wrote:
> Wow, so much to think about. I can see many hours ahead staring at the
> various boxes under the SIII.
>
> Thank you to everyone for your input. Will keep you posted when I do
> find the problem.
>
> Regards
>
> Andy
>
> "Dougal" <DougalAThiskennel.free-online.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Dougal wrote:
>>
>>> EMB wrote:
>>>
>>>> Andy wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> If reverse is selected, it goes in without any bother or noise,
>>>>> but then going from reverse to 1st or 2nd is not always possible.
>>>>> Think I will replace the slave cylinder as I have a new spare,
>>>>> and see if that improves the situation, unless you have any other
>>>>> ideas ?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I wouldn't bother - if it'll go straight into reverse without any
>>>> noise there's nothing wrong with the clutch assembly.
>>>>
>>>> I'd be changing the gearbox oil for ordinary EP90 and then driving
>>>> it for a few miles to see if it settles down.
>>>
>>>
>>> I am also of the opinion that the clutch is not involved.
>>>
>>> I think that the clue may be in your comment that with the transfer
>>> box in neutral there is no problem. The overdrive may also be
>>> involved. Could you repeat your tests with the overdrive in neutral but
>>> the
>>> transfer box still engaged? I'm not expecting anything different
>>> but you never know ....
>>>
>>> The general line of thinking is that fitting the overdrive (any
>>> idea if it was done recently?) can upset the end float in the
>>> mainshaft which could adversely affect the first/second synchro
>>> area. The installation may have been poor, something loose, end
>>> float not set up correctly, tab washer missing (it's slightly
>>> different with the overdrive as it needs to fit inside the
>>> overdrive input gear). The next step might be to remove the overdrive
>>> and check that area
>>> - not too difficult to do.
>>
>> Adding just a bit more -
>>
>> So far three situations have been tried:
>> - stationary - transfer gear engaged
>> - stationary - transfer gear disengaged
>> - mobile - transfer gear engaged
>>
>> The difference is that in the first (and problematical case) the
>> mainshaft is held stationary. There's something stopping first and
>> second engaging cleanly which points to the first/second synchro
>> area. Either there is something fundamentally faulty there (I hope
>> not) or it is being affected by something external e.g. a mainshaft
>> end float problem.

First time I had box problems I opened the manual & studied the drive train
logic till I worked out what it was - I was able to work out precisely which
shaft had failed & whereabouts, having noted the symptoms from the tests I'd
done and relating those to the manuals. I'd never worked on any box before,
let alone a Series with such a large & heavy box (well, that's how it seemed
at the time)

The beauty of the Series is that it's just a Meccano kit with a Land Rover
badge on the bonnet

Good luck, & keep us posted.

Karen

--
"I'd far rather be happy than right any day."
- Slartibartfast

Dougal wrote:
> Dougal wrote:
>
>> EMB wrote:
>>
>>> Andy wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> If reverse is selected, it goes in without any bother or noise, but
>>>> then going from reverse to 1st or 2nd is not always possible. Think
>>>> I will replace the slave cylinder as I have a new spare, and see if
>>>> that improves the situation, unless you have any other ideas ?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I wouldn't bother - if it'll go straight into reverse without any
>>> noise there's nothing wrong with the clutch assembly.
>>>
>>> I'd be changing the gearbox oil for ordinary EP90 and then driving it
>>> for a few miles to see if it settles down.
>>
>>
>>
>> I am also of the opinion that the clutch is not involved.
>>
>> I think that the clue may be in your comment that with the transfer
>> box in neutral there is no problem. The overdrive may also be involved.
>>
>> Could you repeat your tests with the overdrive in neutral but the
>> transfer box still engaged? I'm not expecting anything different but
>> you never know ....
>>
>> The general line of thinking is that fitting the overdrive (any idea
>> if it was done recently?) can upset the end float in the mainshaft
>> which could adversely affect the first/second synchro area. The
>> installation may have been poor, something loose, end float not set up
>> correctly, tab washer missing (it's slightly different with the
>> overdrive as it needs to fit inside the overdrive input gear).
>>
>> The next step might be to remove the overdrive and check that area -
>> not too difficult to do.
>
>
> Adding just a bit more -
>
> So far three situations have been tried:
> - stationary - transfer gear engaged
> - stationary - transfer gear disengaged
> - mobile - transfer gear engaged
>
> The difference is that in the first (and problematical case) the
> mainshaft is held stationary. There's something stopping first and
> second engaging cleanly which points to the first/second synchro area.
> Either there is something fundamentally faulty there (I hope not) or it
> is being affected by something external e.g. a mainshaft end float problem.

.... and one final thought -

The "fundamentally faulty" may be nothing more disasterous than worn
first/second synchro cones (but that doesn't make them any easier to
change) evidence of which may be less severe symptoms when the gearbox
oil is really cold.

Try this as a workaround - if wishing to engage first/second when
stationary, initially engage third then engage first/second. Do not
engage the clutch between the two actions.

Good Luck.