new problem today

so today my td4 auto started playing up on the duel carrage way goes through the gears fine till you get to about 50mph at that point its going from 4th to 5th. when changing i can only describe it as slipping. it changes the revs come up abit then it locks up and its fine. no sh with the car so slowly making my way round changing the fluids on diff/ird etc. could this be a case of just need the auto box fluid changed or is this something much bigger ? anyone had a problem like this ?

regards

mark

Thought I'd mention, anyone trying to change the jatco auto oil needs to make sure they undo the correct bolt (not the one on the back) underneath to check oil level. You'd be amazed how many garages fek it up.

Hippo said:

Thought I'd mention, anyone trying to change the jatco auto oil needs to make sure they undo the correct bolt (not the one on the back) underneath to check oil level. You'd be amazed how many garages fek it up.

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cheers for that info mate i seen a post about this not sure if it was you that put the info up but the photos on the post didnt work dont suppose you have a working link for me please

Ere’s the link. Long fred but it’s all in there.

http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/f9/jatco-automatic-gearbox-69336-5.html

Common theory is an oil change on the Jacto JF506E (auto gearbox in Freelander 1) can sort all sorts of problems, namely betterer gear shift. Colour of oil can suggest if the clutches etc are worn. James will be along to advise on this as he’s taken then apart before. From what I see there’s 6 clutches, 5 on forward gears on 1 on reverse, at least. One thing I would do if it were mine is have a look at the 2x barrel connectors. They twist together to lock. If they come apart or there’s a broken or a split wire shorting to earth then this will cause problems. Also generates a flashing F4 on the dash display, so this won’t be your problem but worth checking if they is secure anyway. Connectors are above the auto, if you look down behind the passenger headlight. I fixed mine together with tie wraps as we all know tie wraps is the bestist fix everer. Further stuff you could do is measure the resistances of the sensors in the auto, via the barrel connectors. Could be a sensor is out of tolerance. Also a diagnostic which can read the auto’s computer will advise if there’s any fault codes in there, highlighting something wrong. Normal cheap readers won’t be able to get past the engine computer to see inside the auto’s computer. It’s a case of try it and see with this sort of fault, or get an eggspert to charge you loads.


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Could be the turbo hose, they tend to rub on a bolt head, if you feel under the pipe towards the drivers side you'll feel quite easily if its wearing thin

Good point. I was thinking of auto slipping from what he said. I missed the td4 bit as mines a petrol. Tubes show slipts betterer when the engine is at higher revs, which may help to find them.

cheers for your replys guys i will have a look at these plugs hippo. could a split turbo hose make it feel like its slipping ?

Split in turbo hose means it will loose power. You get a feeling of reduced top end power. Like at the top of the rev range of the engine, or when the engine is required to make the most power.

Hippo said:

Split in turbo hose means it will loose power. You get a feeling of reduced top end power. Like at the top of the rev range of the engine, or when the engine is required to make the most power.

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i will have a look at these she still pulls well and sits at 80 fine

ok checked conectors all fine turbo hoses are fine also. ive also noticed when cold the change from 3rd to 4th happens with a jerk sometimes and from 4th to 5th it doesnt lock the tc right away. its changes to 5th the revs come up then it locks then its fine ?

anyone used carlube atf-u ?

mark666freelander said:

ok checked conectors all fine turbo hoses are fine also. ive also noticed when cold the change from 3rd to 4th happens with a jerk sometimes and from 4th to 5th it doesnt lock the tc right away. its changes to 5th the revs come up then it locks then its fine ?

anyone used carlube atf-u ?

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The Jatco will be slow to change up until warm. Don't force it.

It sounds like you really need a change of fluid first before you suspect any other fault.

Have you read my post on how I did this? As long as you are 100% sure of the drain plug and the level plug it's a dawdle. Checking the level is not too difficult once you understand what is going on.

http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/f9/jatco-fluid-change-success-190451.html

What mileage at the moment? Any proof the fluid has been changed in the past.

In my opinion is is essential to stick to the service schedule or even sooner. A change of fluid shows an immediate improvement in the quality and smoothness of the changes especially upward ones.

Get the real fluid - from a Rover agent if you can find one - otherwise it's the main dealer. Don't cut corners - it's not worth it.

S.

My Auto TD4 2003 117,000 miles freelander does similar things to yours. When changing gear from 3rd to 4th or 4th to 5th the revs increase as if the torque converter is slipping for about two seconds and then the revs drop back down. I just think its something to do with the torque convertor slipping and then going into lock up which its supposed to do. Mine has been like this since I bought the car last December. A landrover dealer changed the auto oil for me back in July but car still behaves in this way.

twister1264 said:

My Auto TD4 2003 117,000 miles freelander does similar things to yours. When changing gear from 3rd to 4th or 4th to 5th the revs increase as if the torque converter is slipping for about two seconds and then the revs drop back down. I just think its something to do with the torque convertor slipping and then going into lock up which its supposed to do. Mine has been like this since I bought the car last December. A landrover dealer changed the auto oil for me back in July but car still behaves in this way.

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Torque converter slippage when cold is normal as is a slight delay in the up change! It's controlled by the box ecu in an attempt to heat up the fluid faster!! As with any auto it's well worth a fluid change to correct any slight sluggishness. When it's over 40°C the converter clutch will lock up but only once the ecu has checked that lockup is required, hence the slight delay I guess. I'm personally not so convinced that you "must" use the Rover fluid as the box design is now over 15 years old which means there will be better fluids out there. The correct level is far more important imho!!

Nodge68 said:

Torque converter slippage when cold is normal as is a slight delay in the up change! It's controlled by the box ecu in an attempt to heat up the fluid faster!! As with any auto it's well worth a fluid change to correct any slight sluggishness. When it's over 40°C the converter clutch will lock up but only once the ecu has checked that lockup is required, hence the slight delay I guess. I'm personally not so convinced that you "must" use the Rover fluid as the box design is now over 15 years old which means there will be better fluids out there. The correct level is far more important imho!!

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My thoughts exactly about the dealer ATF. It will be mineral based to quite a low specification.

"Flaring" as they call it between gears is usually due to wear in the corresponding control solenoid but as has been said a fluid change will often correct things especially if it is changed as soon as a the problem arises so it can't get any worse.


What I don't agree with is the method of changing ATF in the gearbox. By only draining/replacing the contents of the sump once, twice even three times there is still a significant quantity of old ATF in the gearbox. I recommend googling "Gibbons Method" (originally used to do an ATF change on a V70 i think) to see how to do a complete flush that will change 95-99% of the ATF.

OK here is a link http://www.volvoxc.com/forums/showthread.php?5668-Transmission-flushing-at-home-Really-easy-really-effective&p=44232#post44232

I've been thinking about this gibbons method since it was last posted up. Will see what I can come up with.

cheers for all the input guys. singvogel my fl has no service history apart from a wee scribble on the slam panel saying is was serviced on 2009 @ 59000 miles. shes now on 103000 miles so my first call was engine oil and filter . next ird and diff then the auto box

this gibbons method sounds good if it works on the feelander .how much oil would we need in this case ?

cheers for all your help so far guys

I bought 12L of ATF and my XC90 has a capacity of around 8L (can't remember exactly) so rule of thumb says about half again of the total capacity of the Jatco box.

All you need to remember for the Gibbons method (assuming you can intercept the return from the cooler) is to save enough ATF to level off when the flushing is finished - minimum 1L. The XC pumped out about 1.5L on each flush and dropped about 2.5L from the sump. That meant I had enough ATF for 6 flush cycles by which time the ATF was looking a very satisfying blood red again.

mark666freelander said:

cheers for all the input guys. singvogel my fl has no service history apart from a wee scribble on the slam panel saying is was serviced on 2009 @ 59000 miles. shes now on 103000 miles so my first call was engine oil and filter . next ird and diff then the auto box

this gibbons method sounds good if it works on the feelander .how much oil would we need in this case ?

cheers for all your help so far guys

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For a normal change you need to have 5 litres available - I have less than half a litre left from that.

Haynes says that the total capacity is 8.5 litres, but I have no idea how much the Gibbons Method would manage to drain - I've not done anything like that.

If your service at 59,000 was done correctly it should have included a change of ATF fluid - they would be able to charge more - but whether or not it was actually done is anybody's guess.

If I was starting again, knowing what I know now I would be changing the fluid much more often - perhaps at 40K - I'm certainly not going to wait until 60K.

Before you drain the IRD - be sure that you can slacken the filler/level plug first - some poor souls have been know to drain the IRD and then not be able to open the filler. IRD is often not checked/topped up because of the tight filler plug. I needed a long extension bar, and mucho effort.

The rear diff has no drain plug. I was tempted to open the casing to get all the old oil out - but decided against that as on my previous Freelander I could not get a good seal again and had to live with a slight 'weep'.

Instead I got myself a syrnge with a flexi spout from Halfrauds to suck the oil out - it was also needed to get the new oil in as the filler/level plug is not the easiest to top up from a litre bottle.

Have you got a Haynes Workshop Manual and the Owner's manual?
Are you actually in Aberdeen City?

Singvogel.

Singvogel said:

Haynes says that the total capacity is 8.5 litres, but I have no idea how much the Gibbons Method would manage to drain - I've not done anything like that.
Singvogel.

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Singvogel, the Gibbons method replaces virtually all the ATF in one go. It also doesn't drain the ATF as you intercept the cooler return line, you "pump" the ATF out and you also prevent the old stuff from re-entering the sump. By using the clear tubing it allows you to spot firstly when air bubbles appear (which is when you switch the engine off) and secondly the colour of the ATF so you can tell when the flush has completed a full cycle of the gearbox (when it clears to red).

It really is simple and looking at the plumbing on the Jatco cooler it looks as though it is possible too. Just purchase the right size tubing to fit over the output pipe from the cooler and the method is the same as in the link.

One thing I don't know though is if you disconnect the return line to the gearbox is this above the sump level and if not how do you prevent the ATF leaking out at that point?

Hippo said:

I've been thinking about this gibbons method since it was last posted up. Will see what I can come up with.

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When changing the trany fluid in my old Pajero I simply drain the box with the drain plug then fill with fresh fluid. Then removed the cooler pipe and put it into a large bucket. It's then a case of start the engine and watch the old fluid pump out, stopping the engine as soon as it the new red fluid can be seen! This way 90% comes out!! It's the way we did it in the garage on the older type trany's too!!