Is an engine replacement in a 4.6 P38 a complicated job?

So, I bought my first P38 today.
Horray.
I took a chance and went with a blind bid on eBay. To cut a long story short it overheated 10 minutes into my journey home.
Booooooo.

Limped to a garage who added some water to the header tank and there was clearly bubbles being forced into the system.
So, head gasket or slipped liners. Bummer.

Previous owner was good enough to let me return it. We got chatting and he offered to to transport it to my place with a discount for me to get it fixed.
The car was otherwise quite nice so may not be the worst idea.
Trying to establish if it's worth it.
I can get an engine with a 30 day warranty off eBay for £800 delivered on an exchange basis.
Has anybody got any experience swapping the V8 over in a p38?
Looks to be plenty of room in there and not too much in the way. I think my engine crane would reach.
I would want it swapped quickly however as I already have too many projects so would only be interested if it's a fairly straightforward swap.
Any thoughts on the value of a P38 with a knackered engine to establish a fair discount?

Here is the car

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/225127580156?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=yndUiuxpTbe&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=ekOY2RLDR4m&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY



(I'll send the thread to the previous owner so he can decide what he wants to do)

Thanks all

Boiling water can produce bubbles, need a sniff test on the coolant before you go down the new engine route.
Overheating is often due to a faulty viscous fan but could be the thermostat stuck or a number of other things.
Jumping to conclusions is expensive.

I want to sell mine, it has a knackered engine too. Swapping the v8 isn't hard at all if you have a hoist and the right tools.
I'd consider doing it myself but i can't face it right now.
I'm not sure what the going price is, but i can't see it would be very much even though I'm my case it has 4 brand new tyres, decent gearbox and running gear etc

Datatek said:

Boiling water can produce bubbles, need a sniff test on the coolant before you go down the new engine route.
Overheating is often due to a faulty viscous fan but could be the thermostat stuck or a number of other things.
Jumping to conclusions is expensive.

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Sniff test is quick and cheap.

30 day warranty on a V8 for 800 Ask @kermit_rr It could well be a goodun.

If its a keeper and I mean a real keeper and you really want/need it you would need to get it at alot less than that and I mean hundred's
Then spend a few grand on a tophat linered engine would be the only way to guarantee life

It does sound the rest is good though, conundrum for you to apply manmath too.

J

marjon said:

30 day warranty on a V8 for 800 Ask @kermit_rr It could well be a goodun.

If its a keeper and I mean a real keeper and you really want/need it you would need to get it at alot less than that and I mean hundred's
Then spend a few grand on a tophat linered engine would be the only way to guarantee life

It does sound the rest is good though, conundrum for you to apply manmath too.

J

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Finding an engine that's been top hatted properly seems hard work, i don't see how you can tell if it's been lipped at the bottom.
As i understand, if it hasn't then it can still leak. If it has, then a cracked block is no big deal as the coolant and exhaust gases have nowhere to go

After above sniff test, compression test is quick and easy way to check for leaking head gasket. Then, is there any water in the oil or oil in the water? If you pop some UV tracer dye in the coolant (cheap kit made by Ring) that will show you if any coolant is getting into the oil (flecks of light on the dipstick under UV light). As ever, very sound advice in the posts above.

kermit_rr said:

Finding an engine that's been top hatted properly seems hard work, i don't see how you can tell if it's been lipped at the bottom.
As i understand, if it hasn't then it can still leak. If it has, then a cracked block is no big deal as the coolant and exhaust gases have nowhere to go

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The "top hat" is the clue it holds the liner in place with the head, it could be in a cracked block and still work. They are lipped at the "top"

The liners move and they only have the fire ring to stop which the liner beats away when it moves then the exhaust gas gets to the water.

J

+1 on the compression test. I think an engine swap would be pretty straightforward. I have read there is a top bolt on the bell housing that is hard to get at. I think you need to remove engine mounts to lower engine to get at it I have also read that you should not remove the torque converter with the engine as it drives the transmission oil pump and can be hard to refit correctly. One fellow said he jammed a piece of wood into the bell housing from below to hold it in place.

marjon said:

The "top hat" is the clue it holds the liner in place with the head, it could be in a cracked block and still work. They are lipped at the "top"

The liners move and they only have the fire ring to stop which the liner beats away when it moves then the exhaust gas gets to the water.

J

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Interesting thread, if you can be bothered to read it all..
https://forums.lr4x4.com/topic/24559-rover-v8-cracking-block-and-all-the-theories-around/

Gord Wedman said:

+1 on the compression test. I think an engine swap would be pretty straightforward. I have read there is a top bolt on the bell housing that is hard to get at. I think you need to remove engine mounts to lower engine to get at it I have also read that you should not remove the torque converter with the engine as it drives the transmission oil pump and can be hard to refit correctly. One fellow said he jammed a piece of wood into the bell housing from below to hold it in place.

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Yes, the torque converter must be disconnected from the flex plate and held in place in the bell housing or the oil pump drive tangs can be broken off.

kermit_rr said:

Interesting thread, if you can be bothered to read it all..
https://forums.lr4x4.com/topic/24559-rover-v8-cracking-block-and-all-the-theories-around/

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I will read the full thread later, but would note that somebody mentions the fire ring getting batterer and then it all goes to ****.

We had head gaskets replaced then next head skimmed and more gaskets.
Now it was Ms only car at the time and I worked away.

The top hat liner engine shipped from the UK "air freight" is still the best thing in the now spares car right now.

J

P38 Monkey said:

After above sniff test, compression test is quick and easy way to check for leaking head gasket. Then, is there any water in the oil or oil in the water? If you pop some UV tracer dye in the coolant (cheap kit made by Ring) that will show you if any coolant is getting into the oil (flecks of light on the dipstick under UV light). As ever, very sound advice in the posts above.

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The original owner is going to take it to a garage so hopefully will get some tests done. It will be interesting to see what they come back with.

There was no sign of oil in water, or water in the oil or any noticeable white smoke from exhaust.
Radiator got nice and hot so seemed to be doing it's job. Unlikely to be the fan I think as it overheated too quickly I would have thought. Even at idle when at the garage.
I'd be very surprised it was not exhaust bubbles in the header tank based on how quickly and aggressively it boiled over after new coolant was added. I must get myself a sniff test for future such scenarios however.

I wonder, assuming it is something more serious, does the lack of oil being affected make it more likely to be a slipped liner than a head gasket?

The all too common scenario is exhaust gases getting into the coolant. You don't get oil/coolant mixed
If it's just boiling then it could be a lack of system pressure.
The top hose should be firm, but not rock hard. If you can squeeze it completely in 2 then there's no pressure and it will boil

Don't get too worried about the torque converter.
It's connected to the flex plate (which is attached to the crankshaft) by 4 bolts which screw into 4 bosses on the front of the tc
Once those are removed & before removing the engine there are various ways of stopping it sliding forwards and falling off the gearbox input shafts. It's heavy & retains a surprisingly large quantity of fluid.
Can be a bit of a fight refitting it to the gearbox with the box level but as the LR special tools are just two straight handles that thread into two of the four bosses on the front of the tc they're simple to make & make the job easier.
Ensure that the tc is seated on the box so that the distance between a straight edge laid across the front of the bellhousing & the front of any one of the bosses is the correct measurement which shows it's engaged with the box fluid pump.
Find a way to stop it sliding off again!

kermit_rr said:

I want to sell mine, it has a knackered engine too. Swapping the v8 isn't hard at all if you have a hoist and the right tools.
I'd consider doing it myself but i can't face it right now.
I'm not sure what the going price is, but i can't see it would be very much even though I'm my case it has 4 brand new tyres, decent gearbox and running gear etc

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£250 as a parts cars

doriz said:

£250 as a parts cars

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Too generous in these climes...

I'd be too embarrassed to take a penny more than £125 to un-burden him of it.

Montyjohn said:

The original owner is going to take it to a garage so hopefully will get some tests done. It will be interesting to see what they come back with.

There was no sign of oil in water, or water in the oil or any noticeable white smoke from exhaust.
Radiator got nice and hot so seemed to be doing it's job. Unlikely to be the fan I think as it overheated too quickly I would have thought. Even at idle when at the garage.
I'd be very surprised it was not exhaust bubbles in the header tank based on how quickly and aggressively it boiled over after new coolant was added. I must get myself a sniff test for future such scenarios however.

I wonder, assuming it is something more serious, does the lack of oil being affected make it more likely to be a slipped liner than a head gasket?

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Depends where the gasket has gone as per oil etc. My feeling is it just the head gaskets - they're pretty much a serviceable item on the v8 every 100k miles. Slipped liners would be heard tapping in the engine and usually only when hot.

Head gaskets isn't a bad job, just tome consuming and hence expensive unless you do it yourself. Engine swap isn't that bad but also very time consuming but how good will the new engine be? V8 developments will rebuild your engine for about £2.5k but it will take them a few months to get time to do it and 3 months to turn it around so you wouldn't see it until the Spring.

For slipped sleeves you can pin them.

JUKE179r said:

For slipped sleeves you can pin them.

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That last bullet point is the key! Described exactly this to RPI and they had 'no clue' what it was, instead letting me spend a pile of money on what is now scrap