HELP! Vibration when flooring it, none when freewheeling

if you have a lift on the truck may as well get a new wide angle prop !

Hi,

Looking at your video, most of the play is in the diffs and the gearbox - that is the rotaional play when your turn the shaft, and in my experience, is fairly standard for a Disco.

There is definitely some play in the UJ's - you can see some movement where the cross prices go into the propshaft. It's not massive, and I would not have thought it would cause the vibration you are seeing. Having said that, new UJ's are cheap and a relatively quick fix. It shouldn't cost much to have done, and it shouldn't make the situation worse.

On the weld in the shaft, I am pretty sure that that is normal from the build process - I don't have a Disco 1 now, so I can't check - however, other videos on YouTube show the same weld.

The most likely thing that would cause vibration in the drive train would be the propshaft(s) going out of balance. Were the shafts removed for the Waxoyl treatment? If so, an they weren't marked, and are now in a different alignment, that could affect things - when I had a 300Tdi, there were chunks of metal welded on to the shaft to balance it. Has any sealant got on to the shafts? If so, get that cleaned off - if a 40mm x 15mm x 1mm piece of metal will balance the shaft, a lump of waxoyl could probably have an effect.

So it is highly unlikley you will need a new shaft, but changing the bearings and the cross pieces in the UJ's is a cheap option that may help. There are garages, mainly in the trucking business, who can balance propshafts if that is what the problem is.

Of course, it may be something else other than the props!
All the best!
Cheers!

Thanks for the replies... the waxoyling was done with nothing removed whatsoever. There was also none sprayed onto the prop shafts (perhaps a touch of overspray). it's been completely fine for 300 miles since the waxoyl. Suddenly, for this journey home, the vibration was present.

The prop shaft could be unbalanced, but what would cause that to suddenly happen?

You are right that changing UJs is cheap to do, but if I can't do them myself (I have no vice for example) it'll cost me £50 at least + the £16 for both UJs. Even then, the problem may still be there.

So... if removing the prop shaft is simply a case of undoing 8 bolts and it'll then drop to the floor, is it not worth doing that and going out for a drive to see if it's still there?

Shouldn't that be step 1?

Also, why would it happen when accelerating, but not freewheeling at the same speed?

fishsponge said:

Also, why would it happen when accelerating, but not freewheeling at the same speed?

Click to expand...

because when you are accelerating you are putting torsional forces through the UJ, free wheeling they are just turning over

OK... that makes sense, I guess

However........

fishsponge said:

Thanks for the replies... the waxoyling was done with nothing removed whatsoever. There was also none sprayed onto the prop shafts (perhaps a touch of overspray). it's been completely fine for 300 miles since the waxoyl. Suddenly, for this journey home, the vibration was present.

The prop shaft could be unbalanced, but what would cause that to suddenly happen?

You are right that changing UJs is cheap to do, but if I can't do them myself (I have no vice for example) it'll cost me £50 at least + the £16 for both UJs. Even then, the problem may still be there.

So... if removing the prop shaft is simply a case of undoing 8 bolts and it'll then drop to the floor, is it not worth doing that and going out for a drive to see if it's still there?

Shouldn't that be step 1?

Click to expand...

Graham Carter said:

Hi,

There is definitely some play in the UJ's - you can see some movement where the cross prices go into the propshaft. It's not massive, and I would not have thought it would cause the vibration you are seeing.

The most likely thing that would cause vibration in the drive train would be the propshaft(s) going out of balance. Were the shafts removed for the Waxoyl treatment? If so, an they weren't marked, and are now in a different alignment, that could affect things - when I had a 300Tdi, there were chunks of metal welded on to the shaft to balance it. Has any sealant got on to the shafts? If so, get that cleaned off - if a 40mm x 15mm x 1mm piece of metal will balance the shaft, a lump of waxoyl could probably have an effect.

Click to expand...

Sorry, but that's a load of bollox.
The UJ is well shagged and it's 99% certain to be thw cause of the vibration.

By all means drop off the prop and run in diff lock as a first step.
You'll need a couple of 9/16" combination spanners to get it off (or one combi and a 3/8" drive socket).

Treworgey 90 said:

Sorry, but that's a load of bollox.
The UJ is well shagged and it's 99% certain to be thw cause of the vibration.

By all means drop off the prop and run in diff lock as a first step.
You'll need a couple of 9/16" combination spanners to get it off (or one combi and a 3/8" drive socket).

Click to expand...

:5biamwithstupid::5biagree:

9/16" - that'll be no problem - i only own imperial spanners!

(he says, assuming his set is complete)

Either tomorrow night when I get home then, or on Saturday morning I'll attempt to undo the 8 bolts. Hopefully the prop shaft will then just drop from the vehicle hopefully missing my face, i'll engage diff lock and see if the vibration's gone!

If it has, i'll head off to the LR dealer and let him examine the prop shaft and UJs

Thanks for the help, guys!

fishsponge said:

9/16" - that'll be no problem - i only own imperial spanners!

(he says assuming his set is complete)

Either tomorrow night when I get home then, or on Saturday morning I'll attempt to undo the 8 bolts. Hopefully the prop shaft will then just drop from the vehicle hopefully missing my face, i'll engage diff lock and see if the vibration's gone!

If it has, i'll head off to the LR dealer and let him examine the prop shaft and UJs

Thanks for the help, guys!

Click to expand...

Hint.
Chock 2 wheels. Jack it up so that one wheel is off the ground. Use this wheel to turn the prop to optimise the position of each nut / bolt in turn.
Undo the diff end first.

I've been watching videos on youtube of knackered UJs and I have to say, i can't find a video of one in as good a condition as mine!

Also, all of the youtube videos talk about noise, not vibration. Mine vibrates, but makes no noise (to speak of).

Don't get me wrong - i have complete faith in the advice I receive here on Landyzone... it's just that i'll be amazed if that small amount of play causes the vibration to the extent that I'm feeling under heavy acceleration... it's plausible, but i'll be very surprised, if you know what i mean...

yu have 2 choices.

take it
leave it


your choice!

fair point!

i guess it comes down to who knows more and it certainly ain't me!

Advice taken, and taken gratefully at that

i'll remove the prop shaft and go out for a drive with diff lock engaged as soon as I can (probably Saturday morning now).

get yourself a decent tool kit you could do a lot worse than this
Halfords | Halfords Advanced Professional 150 piece Socket/Ratchet Set
also the front prop vibe is a well documented problem
why ask a question, get an answer that is supported by a number of people and then doubt it ?
it is a process of elimination do the easy/cheap stuff first to discount it then move on if it doesn't fix it.
but until you have 100% eliminated the front prop/uj don't drive it!
if it does go just try and imagine what a 5kg metal tube rotating at over 200 rpm spinning round underneath you car will do ?
I was very very lucky but i still have a dent in my gearbox and floor you may not be as lucky and it could take your gearbox out or and believe me this is true flip the car over ! ! !

it's sadly in my nature to question everything in life. I'm quite a pain sometimes, mostly to myself.

I'm a paranoid sod too.

I never mean to annoy people either... although my questioning of everything occasionally does! I'm very thorough in life too, and that doesn't help!

Anyway... you say don't drive it until I've eliminated the front prop/uj... but I can't find out if i'm eliminated it unless I drive it, of course, so i'll have to drive it a little bit

In summary - you are all right - many people have said it's the UJ, and you each have so much more experience than all of me combined! I will therefore take the advice and act upon it accordingly.

And i've heard stories of dropped prop shafts flipping vehicles before (digging into the road etc...) - not a pleasant experience, I imagine.

jase750 said:

get yourself a decent tool kit you could do a lot worse than this
Halfords | Halfords Advanced Professional 150 piece Socket/Ratchet Set
also the front prop vibe is a well documented problem
why ask a question, get an answer that is supported by a number of people and then doubt it ?
it is a process of elimination do the easy/cheap stuff first to discount it then move on if it doesn't fix it.
but until you have 100% eliminated the front prop/uj don't drive it!
if it does go just try and imagine what a 5kg metal tube rotating at over 200 rpm spinning round underneath you car will do ?
I was very very lucky but i still have a dent in my gearbox and floor you may not be as lucky and it could take your gearbox out or and believe me this is true flip the car over ! ! !

Click to expand...

Because that's what he does on every question! Always finds things wrong wi' what folk say

bustersbus said:

Because that's what he does on every question! Always finds things wrong wi' what folk say

Click to expand...

no, no, no, no.............. you've got me all wrong!

I don't find fault in what people say, I'm just very thorough but have no knowledge of the subject!

I therefore struggle to be thorough and have to question everything in an attempt to understand it. Add to that the fact thet i'm really, really paranoid about spending money when I shouldn't, buying the wrong parts that I can't return, screwing something up, and many more things!!

It's sadly the way I was made. No offence meant! I'm very grateful, trust me!!!

I'm not gonna get out of this one though, am i...

One more question, if I may... is the part number for both UJs TVC100010 ?

i.e. do i need a quantity of 2 of the above part?

Also, Genuine ones are £50(!!!!!), but I assume Bearmach are suitable replacement, or perhaps Allmakes? Would you steer clear of a Britpart one?

I may not have any choice as it all depends what my local indy LR dealer has, but given the choice...

eBay - about £8 each.

I don't bother what it is, but then again it's only an hour or so job.

ok... well i phoned my local indy LR dealer and they have them in stock for £15 exc. VAT (Branded GKN). Given that I need this tomorrow, i'll go there I guess!

Interestingly though, when I gave him the part number TVC100010 and told him it was the UJs for a Disco 1 front prop shaft he said "we have the UJs for a Disco 1 front prop shaft in stock, but it's not that part number"!

I didn't ask what part number it was, but how can there be multiple part numbers for the same item?!?

OK, the part number is RTC4132G - very hard to find out whether that's the right part on the Internet. Does anyone have a clue?

The dealer is very knowledgeable about these things, so I do trust them... just struggling to find this part number anywhere else other than "4muddyfeet.com" which has no description for it other than it's a UJ!

Oh, and here it is on LRdirect - RTC4132G - U-Joint :: Part_Numbers_Starting_With_R :: LRDirect