HELP Is it my Clutch OR gearbox

Hi All

Got my fist MAJOR problem, had to happen sooner or later lol.

2000 Discovery 2 TD5 Manual

Went to a pay and play day at Pea Farm Today..anyone there?

Anyway My brother got his trooper stuck and i tried to pull him out, couldn't budge it and my clutch was stinking so had to give up. I tried to put the car in reverse to get out of the way so someone else could have a go But i had a hell of a job to get it in gear, had to drive forward a bit, even getting it into first gear was a bit of a struggle but it eventually went into gear. As the day went on the clutch started to slip so badly i needed a tow into the car park.

I let the car cool down and when it was time to set off home i could not get it into gear, clutch pedal didnt seem to be doing anything, If i turned the engine off and put it on gear with the handbrake off and started the engine on a rolling start there was drive in first gear that lasted a short while and there was a sort of clung and we had no drive again. Hope that makes sense Basically is this just because the clutch plate if shagged or have a damaged something else?

The thrush bearing has been sqeaking for a few months now when ever the engine is cold and i pressed the clutch pedal in, its also had a problem getting it into reverse for a few months as well, not all the time but i sometimes had to put it into first and move forward a few inches and then it would go into reverse no problem so i dont know if this has ben a build up to this problem this afternoon.

If its the clutch plate do i have to replace the dual mass flyweeh as well??

Thanks all

Brian

Just been pricing clutch kits just in case.....what are peoples views of kits with Britpart parts in them?? I know there suspension parts get slated but what about there clutches?

BRITPART ****PART end of story

sounds like you got the release bearing stuck on the shaft when you heated the clutch up.

If a vehicle starts behaving oddly (noises, vibrations etc) they will seldom cure themselves. Whilst you may get away with normal driving any excessive strain will usually make things worse.

mastermac said:

BRITPART ****PART end of story

Click to expand...

Yes I would agree mostly but I have their kit in mine, for a while now with no probs...although Rakeway do a kit aswell who are very good...

If you do go single mass, remember you lose the sound deadening/vibration reduction of a dual mass...

Hi all and thanks for all the replys.

Well me and the brothers have just finnished taking the gear box out to inspect the clutch....what a ****ty job!! what were landrover thinking with some of those bolts, they were in stupidist places to get to

Anyway heres a picture of what we found inside the bell housing

(hope this works)

[/IMG]


Closer look at contents

[/IMG]

and has anyone ever seen a clutch this bad???

[/IMG]

And what about this

[/IMG]

Pretty obvious now the clutch is nackered!

Cant understand how it got this bad, the Thrust bearing had been squeaking for months but no clutch slip NO judder nothing, Just starting slipping after trying to pull the brothers Trooper out of the mud.....im stunned at the damage, shredded clutch plate and shattered pressure plate. Even after the car lost drive totally there was no vibrarions or strange noises.

On closer inspection we could find no signs of a spigot bearing so looks like someone has changed the clutch in the past and not fitted it...dont know if this has made the problem worse?????

The Dual mass flywheel looked ok at first but there were a couple of metal plugs missing from around one side of it with what looks like some sort of pin. We could easly move the flywheel side to side so suspect the springs were shagged as well...so new flywheel as well GULP!!

The clutch and Dual mass fly wheel that was in is a Valeo Kit....is it worth fitting the same again?? or is there an alternative

Off for a bath now cos im filthy

Brian
http://s910.photobucket.com/albums/ac306/brianburdis/?action=view&current=IMGP2484.jpg

Yep. Last time I saw a clutch like that it was on a Mitsubishi Fuso. One of our guys cooked it attempting to reverse up a steep hill while loaded. The driver was unable to move the vehicle from where it was. I went out and drove it back in while he drove my truck.

Must admit when i was towing the trooper out it was backwards so prob not the best thing to do.

Never ever seen a plate cracked like that, would have thought the car would have shuddered and made all sorts of noises though i can see why the lining was shredded, the otherside of the plate which i did not show was shiny and tops of the rivets were worn off.

Just priced some Valeo 5 piece kits off flea bay for about £360

LAND ROVER DISCOVERY DEFENDER TD5 CLUTCH FLYWHEEL KITAP on eBay (end time 11-May-10 22:32:05 BST)

They contain

BrianB said:

Hi all and thanks for all the replys.

Well me and the brothers have just finnished taking the gear box out to inspect the clutch....what a ****ty job!! what were landrover thinking with some of those bolts, they were in stupidist places to get to

Anyway heres a picture of what we found inside the bell housing

(hope this works)

Closer look at contents

and has anyone ever seen a clutch this bad???

And what about this

Pretty obvious now the clutch is nackered!

Cant understand how it got this bad, the Thrust bearing had been squeaking for months but no clutch slip NO judder nothing, Just starting slipping after trying to pull the brothers Trooper out of the mud.....im stunned at the damage, shredded clutch plate and shattered pressure plate. Even after the car lost drive totally there was no vibrarions or strange noises.

On closer inspection we could find no signs of a spigot bearing so looks like someone has changed the clutch in the past and not fitted it...dont know if this has made the problem worse?????

The Dual mass flywheel looked ok at first but there were a couple of metal plugs missing from around one side of it with what looks like some sort of pin. We could easly move the flywheel side to side so suspect the springs were shagged as well...so new flywheel as well GULP!!

The clutch and Dual mass fly wheel that was in is a Valeo Kit....is it worth fitting the same again?? or is there an alternative

Off for a bath now cos im filthy

Brian

Click to expand...

Don't know what anyone else thinks, but If your going to be hammering the car off-road it might be worth considering a single mass flywheel. The dual mass ones don't seem to take much breaking, even when used "normally" ;-)

I'm thinking the same thing, Wondering if anyone has already done this?
Does the car feel any different? I hear others say that the landy will judder more because it does not have the damping of the dual mass flywheel, however no one who has said this has done the swap themselves so dont know if thats 100% true or not.

I think that with a normal flywheel the clutch back plate has the damping springs and it "should" behave the same.

Anyone out there done the swap to normal flywheel?

Thanks all for the replys its been a great help.

Brian

BrianB said:

I'm thinking the same thing, Wondering if anyone has already done this?
Does the car feel any different? I hear others say that the landy will judder more because it does not have the damping of the dual mass flywheel, however no one who has said this has done the swap themselves so dont know if thats 100% true or not.

I think that with a normal flywheel the clutch back plate has the damping springs and it "should" behave the same.

Anyone out there done the swap to normal flywheel?

Thanks all for the replys its been a great help.

Brian

Click to expand...

When I made enquires, I was told the main thing you'd notice is the car won't be as smooth at very low revs. That is, if you slow down to like 1000-1200 revs in 4th gear, then try and pull away it will judder. However that sort of thing *is* rather bad driving

However I've not tried fitting one, I'll wait for mine to break first. I suspect it just wouldn't feel as smooth, in normal driving though.

landy.man said:

When I made enquires, I was told the main thing you'd notice is the car won't be as smooth at very low revs. That is, if you slow down to like 1000-1200 revs in 4th gear, then try and pull away it will judder. However that sort of thing *is* rather bad driving

However I've not tried fitting one, I'll wait for mine to break first. I suspect it just wouldn't feel as smooth, in normal driving though.

Click to expand...

Well i ordered a 5 peice valeo clutch kit today at a cost of £329 ouch and decided to stay with the dual mass flywheel, only time will tell if ive done the right thing.

Now just got to look forward to putting it all back togeather

When we pulled the bell housing off we forgot to unclip 2 wires :doh:. One goes to a sensor at the top of the bell housing, anyone know what that is and which wire goes to which side of the sensor??

Also

We found a 2 convoluted tubes, one either side of the bell housing each with a single white wire in it that looks as though it was snapped off somewhere....anyone any ideas?

Im sure once ive started to put it back togeather well find out how important they were

Clutch arrived today now just got to get the tme to fit it work gets in the way of all the fun stuff!!
Brian

well its in!!! :lol:

BUT

The clutch pedal feels crap and i cant get it in gear :-# :-#
When we were taking the gearbox off we removed the Clutch slave cylinder and the push rod dropped out and we lost some fluid. Around the end of the pushrod there was what might have been some sort of plastic cover/seal?? hard to work out what it was as it was all chewed and melted, probably due to the heat that the clutch cover was giving just before it shattered (see above pics).
Anyway we cleaned up the pushrod and shoved it back into the slave cylinder and re attatched it to the landy once we had got the gearbox in. We bled the clutch for nearly an hour and can see no sighn of air and the pedal feels a bit stiffer but we still cant get it into gear.
If we put it into gear with the engine off and the clutch pressed in then start the car we can drive and change gear, its a little bit difficult to get it into gear so i assume that the clutch is not moving as fully as it should, either because ive still got air in the system or theres seal damaged inside of slave cylinder OR the pushrod is sticking.
Off to europarts tommorow for a replacement slace cylinder @£39...i can get them cheaper off ebay but i cant wait for it to be delivered and just want to get it sorted. Will let ou know how i get on.
Brian

Well fitted the new slave cylinder and bled the system and it still dont work right.

the clutch pedal feels right but it wont go into gear. If i turn off the engine and pop it into first, press the clutch in and start the engine i can move the car, even with the clutch fully in the car is creeping forward. If i drive off i can change through the gears though i have to pull on the gear lever a bit, if i stop and take it out of gear it wont go back into gear unless i turn the engine off and repeat the above procedure.

Im now at a total loss what to do next, to be honest i'm well fed up .

So far its had a full new 5 peice clutch consisting of
valeo dualmass flywheel
ap clutch plate and cover
ap thrust bearing
spigot bearing

New slave cylinder.

The clutch fork is OK

Gearbox was working fine before shredding incedent apart from a little difficulty getting into reverse which i put down to worn clutch.

Brother reackons that the gearbox oil looks ****e and that could be causing the problems....what do people think? i think not but at this point im open to suggestions. Im going to do the gearbox oil on wekend as it needs done anyway

Has anyone got any suggestions cos im standing here with a can of petrol....which i really cant afford to burn at these prices lol.

Thanks

little suprised you not put new fork in are you 100% sure about it because that alone can do what your describing

Splines look a bit dry, did you use copaslip on them ? .

Fork 100% ok

Lightly greased splines, more to help get the thing slid back into place

Ave got the matches out now