Discovery 4 DPF

Nodge68 · Feb 19, 2023

kermit_rr said:
Maybe we've reached a point where the spotty yoof designers and engineers understand ev more than traditional engines so they are able to design them properly

You have to remember that the EV as they are is an emerging technology.
The ICE vehicle has been under constant development for over 100 years, and is still hugely inefficient.

Just imagine how advanced EVs will be in 100 years!

I've a theory that the electrical systems of EVs are more reliable, simply because they're not subjected to vibration in the same way that an engine powered vehicle is.
Almost all wiring and connector issues in vehicles is caused by vibration, which the EV is devoid of. This should increase reliability of such items, providing the manufacturers actually built them properly.

kermit_rr · Feb 19, 2023

Nodge68 said:
You have to remember that the EV as they are is an emerging technology.
The ICE vehicle has been under constant development for over 100 years, and is still hugely inefficient.

Just imagine how advanced EVs will be in 100 years!

I've a theory that the electrical systems of EVs are more reliable, simply because they're not subjected to vibration in the same way that an engine powered vehicle is.
Almost all wiring and connector issues in vehicles is caused by vibration, which the EV is devoid of. This should increase reliability of such items, providing the manufacturers actually built them properly.

I would argue more vibration comes from the road especially with our use of large wheels, ultra low profile tyres and hard suspension

Nodge68 · Feb 19, 2023

kermit_rr said:
I would argue more vibration comes from the road especially with our use of large wheels, ultra low profile tyres and hard suspension

Road vibrations are low frequency, higher amplitude vibrations, which don't really effect wiring or connections to any great degree, how reliable are ABS sensors, which are only subject to high amplitude, low frequency movement.
What does effect connections is high frequency, mild amplitude vibrations, which changed in frequency constantly, allowing wiring, connections and control modules to go through various resonances as the frequency varies. Electric components on a ICE vehicle are bombarded with hundreds of millions of engine derived vibration cycles over the vehicles life, so there's bound to be failures over time.

kermit_rr · Feb 19, 2023

Nodge68 said:
Road vibrations are low frequency, higher amplitude vibrations, which don't really effect wiring or connections to any great degree, how reliable are ABS sensors, which are only subject to high amplitude, low frequency movement.
What does effect connections is high frequency, mild amplitude vibrations, which changed in frequency constantly, allowing wiring, connections and control modules to go through various resonances as the frequency varies. Electric components on a ICE vehicle are bombarded with hundreds of millions of engine derived vibration cycles over the vehicles life, so there's bound to be failures over time.

I'm sure the same will happen to ev 'engines' given time, folks pushing/hacking them past their design limits of power/lifespan etc

They still have bearings which will wear out and vibrate, there must be some kind of engine mount to absorb flex etc. Everything goes out of spec eventually, it's called end of design life

Nodge68 · Feb 19, 2023

kermit_rr said:
I'm sure the same will happen to ev 'engines' given time, folks pushing/hacking them past their design limits of power/lifespan etc

Possibly, there's more scope for ridiculous performance increases with an EV compared to an ICE vehicle.

kermit_rr said:
They still have bearings which will wear out and vibrate, there must be some kind of engine mount to absorb flex etc. Everything goes out of spec eventually, it's called end of design life

Have you driven an EV? I've driven a few from different manufacturers. One thing that stands out is just how completely vibration free they are.
After driving an EV for a couple of hours, I actually feel like my Freelander 2 is an absolute dinosaur by comparison, simply because the thing vibrates so much, and the Freelander 2 is actually very civilised compared to many diesel powered vehicles.
The difference between an EV and ICE vehicle is night and day.

Yes you are correct, they do have bearings to wear, but how often will that be, when was the last time you changed a bearing in a gearbox? Roller bearings have a much longer life than plain bearings with an oil feed, especially if the rollers aren't subjected to vibrations, which they aren't in a EV.

kermit_rr · Feb 19, 2023

Nodge68 said:
Possibly, there's more scope for ridiculous performance increases with an EV compared to an ICE vehicle.

Have you driven an EV? I've driven a few from different manufacturers. One thing that stands out is just how completely vibration free they are.
After driving an EV for a couple of hours, I actually feel like my Freelander 2 is an absolute dinosaur by comparison, simply because the thing vibrates so much, and the Freelander 2 is actually very civilised compared to many diesel powered vehicles.
The difference between an EV and ICE vehicle is night and day.

Yes you are correct, they do have bearings to wear, but how often will that be, when was the last time you changed a bearing in a gearbox? Roller bearings have a much longer life than plain bearings with an oil feed, especially if the rollers aren't subjected to vibrations, which they aren't in a EV.

Never driven an ev, not even a milk float!
I'm just trying to think of the abuse new ev cars will get, given the lack of maintenance, sealed for life etc

kermit_rr · Feb 19, 2023

kermit_rr said:
Never driven an ev,

Actually that's a lie. Went carting around Christmas, they were all electric

lynall · Feb 19, 2023

Nodge68 said:
EGR is getting more common, and direct injection has been a thing for a while now.
Both these are having an effect on long term engine reliability, which will only get worse.

It seems that way.
Some manufacturers are also using electric motors connected to the crankshaft to boost engine power when needed (called a mild hybrid), which effectively gives a turbo type boost, only without the turbo.

Long term I don't know how reliable or useful these systems are, but they do have one benefit I can think of, which is to use energy from slowing down to charge the batteries, which can then be used to aid acceleration later on.
Whether it's worth the trouble long term, I guess time will tell.

We had two 2001 mercs v6 and v8s petrols both had egr, well they did when I first took them on!

lynall · Feb 19, 2023

kermit_rr said:
I would argue more vibration comes from the road especially with our use of large wheels, ultra low profile tyres and hard suspension

I never understand that on EVs, fat wheels and really small sidewall tyres!

kermit_rr · Feb 19, 2023

lynall said:
I never understand that on EVs, fat wheels and really small sidewall tyres!

I don't understand it on any car

Nodge68 · Feb 19, 2023

kermit_rr said:
Never driven an ev, not even a milk float!
I'm just trying to think of the abuse new ev cars will get, given the lack of maintenance, sealed for life etc

Try one, you'll be shocked at just how much noise an engine adds to a vehicle.

I'm not saying an EV will be trouble free, I'm sure they'll develop a whole load of EV specific issues. Just so far the evidence seems to be to the contrary.

kermit_rr said:
I don't understand it on any car

Maybe on a sports car, that needs perfect handling. But on a road car, ultra low profile tyres aren't needed, and actually compromise the ride quality.
Same with Range Rovers and D3/4s what is it with stupid 22" rims and rubber band tyres? They effect the vehicles all terrain ability, and add nothing to the ride or handling. Pointless waste of resources IMHO.

Discovery 4 DPF

Nodge68

Well-Known Member

kermit_rr

Very

Nodge68

Well-Known Member

kermit_rr

Very

Nodge68

Well-Known Member

kermit_rr

Very

kermit_rr

Very

lynall

Well-Known Member

lynall

Well-Known Member

kermit_rr

Very

Nodge68

Well-Known Member

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