Defender Heater Cheap Upgrade

Hello.
This is my first post. I am currently rebuilding my TD5 90 onto a new chassis and I keep making small upgrades as I go.
Whilst waiting for things to be welded and painted I turned my attention to the heater matrix. On the blogs there are a million posts all asking how to improve the heat in our loved Defenders. The common problem is a simple lack of heat and performance. The Allisport heater matrix upgrade is a whopping £277 whilst the land rover replacement is £26 on Ebay.

I have a possible alternative which I would value your opinion on. It only takes a minor modification to the heater box which should it be unsuccessful means I can replace the original matirix without much issue.

I have replaced the land rover matrix with that of a VW Passat 73-88 for £19.30 from ebay.
Land rover core is 248mm x 152mm x 32mm with a volume of 0.00121m2
VW Passat core is 234mm x 155mm x 42mm with a core volume of 0.00152m2
That's an upgrade of 25%


The VW matrix also has much larger internal pipes because as we all know the land rover matrix is prome to clogging
Land rover Matrix

VW Matrix

The main issue is that the pipe connections are 16mm on the VW as opposed to the 19mm on the land rover but the land rover rubbers are 16mm but open to 19mm on the ends. If you cut back a little then they fit.
The other issue is the VW pipes are shorter and closer to the matrix so a small modification needs to be made to the box so the rubber pipes can be fitted. We made a small infill piece on the cold air side of the matrix and altered the top cover piece a little as the VW matrix is a little slimmer on the top

A small modification was made on the bottom cover piece also as the bottom reservoir does not quite fit inside the heater box.

I have no idea yet if it will improve the heat supply as I am still rebuilding at present. I just thought I would share my ideas and ask for your comments.
I am currently creating a new rear wiring loom with addition supplies as it would appear the last owner owned a set or gardening shears.
Andy

Noworries755 said:

Hello.
This is my first post. I am currently rebuilding my TD5 90 onto a new chassis and I keep making small upgrades as I go.
Whilst waiting for things to be welded and painted I turned my attention to the heater matrix. On the blogs there are a million posts all asking how to improve the heat in our loved Defenders. The common problem is a simple lack of heat and performance. The Allisport heater matrix upgrade is a whopping £277 whilst the land rover replacement is £26 on Ebay.

I have a possible alternative which I would value your opinion on. It only takes a minor modification to the heater box which should it be unsuccessful means I can replace the original matirix without much issue.

I have replaced the land rover matrix with that of a VW Passat 73-88 for £19.30 from ebay.
Land rover core is 248mm x 152mm x 32mm with a volume of 0.00121m2
VW Passat core is 234mm x 155mm x 42mm with a core volume of 0.00152m2
That's an upgrade of 25%
View attachment 194401
View attachment 194402
The VW matrix also has much larger internal pipes because as we all know the land rover matrix is prome to clogging
Land rover Matrix
View attachment 194407
VW Matrix
View attachment 194408
The main issue is that the pipe connections are 16mm on the VW as opposed to the 19mm on the land rover but the land rover rubbers are 16mm but open to 19mm on the ends. If you cut back a little then they fit.
The other issue is the VW pipes are shorter and closer to the matrix so a small modification needs to be made to the box so the rubber pipes can be fitted. We made a small infill piece on the cold air side of the matrix and altered the top cover piece a little as the VW matrix is a little slimmer on the top
View attachment 194403 View attachment 194404
A small modification was made on the bottom cover piece also as the bottom reservoir does not quite fit inside the heater box.
View attachment 194406
I have no idea yet if it will improve the heat supply as I am still rebuilding at present. I just thought I would share my ideas and ask for your comments.
I am currently creating a new rear wiring loom with addition supplies as it would appear the last owner owned a set or gardening shears.
Andy

Click to expand...

That's a nifty little upgrade, should help to get more heat out of the coolant flowing through there, the key things to remember to do is to get the sealing of the box and pipes to ensure the hot air gets into the cabin.

Thank you for the advice. It's going to have all new seals as the old ones were disintegrated.

Hello and welcome

nice upgrade

Welcome to the forum

Let us know if it does improve heating.

Noworries755 said:

Hello.
This is my first post. I am currently rebuilding my TD5 90 onto a new chassis and I keep making small upgrades as I go.
Whilst waiting for things to be welded and painted I turned my attention to the heater matrix. On the blogs there are a million posts all asking how to improve the heat in our loved Defenders. The common problem is a simple lack of heat and performance. The Allisport heater matrix upgrade is a whopping £277 whilst the land rover replacement is £26 on Ebay.

I have a possible alternative which I would value your opinion on. It only takes a minor modification to the heater box which should it be unsuccessful means I can replace the original matirix without much issue.

I have replaced the land rover matrix with that of a VW Passat 73-88 for £19.30 from ebay.
Land rover core is 248mm x 152mm x 32mm with a volume of 0.00121m2
VW Passat core is 234mm x 155mm x 42mm with a core volume of 0.00152m2
That's an upgrade of 25%
View attachment 194401
View attachment 194402
The VW matrix also has much larger internal pipes because as we all know the land rover matrix is prome to clogging
Land rover Matrix
View attachment 194407
VW Matrix
View attachment 194408
The main issue is that the pipe connections are 16mm on the VW as opposed to the 19mm on the land rover but the land rover rubbers are 16mm but open to 19mm on the ends. If you cut back a little then they fit.
The other issue is the VW pipes are shorter and closer to the matrix so a small modification needs to be made to the box so the rubber pipes can be fitted. We made a small infill piece on the cold air side of the matrix and altered the top cover piece a little as the VW matrix is a little slimmer on the top
View attachment 194403 View attachment 194404
A small modification was made on the bottom cover piece also as the bottom reservoir does not quite fit inside the heater box.
View attachment 194406
I have no idea yet if it will improve the heat supply as I am still rebuilding at present. I just thought I would share my ideas and ask for your comments.
I am currently creating a new rear wiring loom with addition supplies as it would appear the last owner owned a set or gardening shears.
Andy

Click to expand...

Did it work?

Noworries755 said:

Hello.
This is my first post. I am currently rebuilding my TD5 90 onto a new chassis and I keep making small upgrades as I go.
Whilst waiting for things to be welded and painted I turned my attention to the heater matrix. On the blogs there are a million posts all asking how to improve the heat in our loved Defenders. The common problem is a simple lack of heat and performance. The Allisport heater matrix upgrade is a whopping £277 whilst the land rover replacement is £26 on Ebay.

I have a possible alternative which I would value your opinion on. It only takes a minor modification to the heater box which should it be unsuccessful means I can replace the original matirix without much issue.

I have replaced the land rover matrix with that of a VW Passat 73-88 for £19.30 from ebay.
Land rover core is 248mm x 152mm x 32mm with a volume of 0.00121m2
VW Passat core is 234mm x 155mm x 42mm with a core volume of 0.00152m2
That's an upgrade of 25%
View attachment 194401
View attachment 194402
The VW matrix also has much larger internal pipes because as we all know the land rover matrix is prome to clogging
Land rover Matrix
View attachment 194407
VW Matrix
View attachment 194408
The main issue is that the pipe connections are 16mm on the VW as opposed to the 19mm on the land rover but the land rover rubbers are 16mm but open to 19mm on the ends. If you cut back a little then they fit.
The other issue is the VW pipes are shorter and closer to the matrix so a small modification needs to be made to the box so the rubber pipes can be fitted. We made a small infill piece on the cold air side of the matrix and altered the top cover piece a little as the VW matrix is a little slimmer on the top
View attachment 194403 View attachment 194404
A small modification was made on the bottom cover piece also as the bottom reservoir does not quite fit inside the heater box.
View attachment 194406
I have no idea yet if it will improve the heat supply as I am still rebuilding at present. I just thought I would share my ideas and ask for your comments.
I am currently creating a new rear wiring loom with addition supplies as it would appear the last owner owned a set or gardening shears.
Andy

Click to expand...

Hi Andy,

Apologies, I was a bit slow, ( 2019) as it seems it has only become an issue recently for me...............

Just saw your post on the good find you had for the heater matrix
Brilliant ...................

Well done, I might try that myself, as I think mine's almost toast


However, couldn't find anywhere on your post if it worked.............
Perhaps you can let us know..................

Much obliged..............

Defender NZ said:

Hi Andy,

Apologies, I was a bit slow, ( 2019) as it seems it has only become an issue recently for me...............

Just saw your post on the good find you had for the heater matrix
Brilliant ...................

Well done, I might try that myself, as I think mine's almost toast


However, couldn't find anywhere on your post if it worked.............
Perhaps you can let us know..................

Much obliged..............

Click to expand...

Do we know if this upgrade to the heater worked??
W

I really do not know why someone in the community has not crafted a very clever solution to this. Potentially an ally heater box with a better fan and core using cheap and readily available parts ie VW core, Freelander fan unit and, and, and which bolts in the same space and actually clamps to the bulkhead, and has the power to clear the screen and heat the cab space immediately. I can drive my defender for 30 mins before warm air appears. Just a thought for someone with a pillar drill, metal bender, creative mind and some spare time.

doriz said:

I really do not know why someone in the community has not crafted a very clever solution to this. Potentially an ally heater box with a better fan and core using cheap and readily available parts ie VW core, Freelander fan unit and, and, and which bolts in the same space and actually clamps to the bulkhead, and has the power to clear the screen and heat the cab space immediately. I can drive my defender for 30 mins before warm air appears. Just a thought for someone with a pillar drill, metal bender, creative mind and some spare time.

Click to expand...

On mornings like this my old Zaffira struggled ...

Dippypud said:

On mornings like this my old Zaffira struggled ...

Click to expand...

I get that but currently technology which blends hot water system and an initial electric element is not outside the technological competence of many on here. Then share the schematics with the masses.

doriz said:

I get that but currently technology which blends hot water system and an initial electric element is not outside the technological competence of many on here. Then share the schematics with the masses.

Click to expand...

Heated coat,heated gloves and put the dog in car for 10 mins before going anywhere to de ice the inside of the windscreen & any other thing he may lick

And frosty the other day so muff time and the temp goes up quicker & heater works well but it is a truck cab

Hicap phill said:

And frosty the other day so muff time

Click to expand...

I get mine at Christmas and birthdays, the frost metric might suit better, I’ll have a word. Bit seasonal tho’

doriz said:

I really do not know why someone in the community has not crafted a very clever solution to this. Potentially an ally heater box with a better fan and core using cheap and readily available parts ie VW core, Freelander fan unit and, and, and which bolts in the same space and actually clamps to the bulkhead, and has the power to clear the screen and heat the cab space immediately. I can drive my defender for 30 mins before warm air appears. Just a thought for someone with a pillar drill, metal bender, creative mind and some spare time.

Click to expand...

I think, because on the whole the standard heater works perfectly well. It is usually lack of maintenance that is the cause of them not working very well.

The only real exception are the Tdi powered vehicles. Not that the heater is any worse in them. Just the Tdi tends to run colder and takes longer to heat up. So a bigger fan and matrix are unlikely to really help here. In fact they could make it worse, as you'd have more volume to heat up and too much air flow. Yet the engine itself won't be producing any additional heat.

Something to check before starting work on a heater.

I have had my 110 200tdi for 23 years and the heater was okay once she warmed up. Then she stopped getting warm in the winter. People told me that they always run cold but I knew this was not the case.

It turns out there is a thermostat in oil cooler too. This was jammed open and being winter the oil cooler was all that was needed to keep the engine cold. £15 later, vast improvement. Definitely worth checking.

Captainmidnight said:

Something to check before starting work on a heater.

I have had my 110 200tdi for 23 years and the heater was okay once she warmed up. Then she stopped getting warm in the winter. People told me that they always run cold but I knew this was not the case.

It turns out there is a thermostat in oil cooler too. This was jammed open and being winter the oil cooler was all that was needed to keep the engine cold. £15 later, vast improvement. Definitely worth checking.

Click to expand...

This is an excellent heads up. By oil cooler you mean the oil filter adaptor, rather than the oil cooler alongside the radiator?

Thermostat part #2 in diag.

v8250 said:

This is an excellent heads up. By oil cooler you mean the oil filter adaptor, rather than the oil cooler alongside the radiator?

Thermostat part #2 in diag.

View attachment 311952

Click to expand...

You know what? I am going to order one and see if it improves my heater, have noticed bloody thing is running even cooler than normal, hovering around 80degc

Stat ERC 5923, 14.95 ebay
O-ring ERC 5913, 2.22 ebay

lynall said:

You know what? I am going to order one and see if it improves my heater, have noticed bloody thing is running even cooler than normal, hovering around 80degc

Stat ERC 5923, 14.95 ebay
O-ring ERC 5913, 2.22 ebay

Click to expand...

Let us know how it goes ...

Dippypud said:

Let us know how it goes ...

Click to expand...

Fitted it yesterday, was easy enough, had to loosen oil pressure switch to get the stat housing past it, the old oil stat will not open even with a blow torch aimed at it, so not sure it will make the heater any better, but you never know.
As I use the 90 so infrequently it could be months before I can report back if it has improved matters, and as it will soon be summer!

v8250 said:

This is an excellent heads up. By oil cooler you mean the oil filter adaptor, rather than the oil cooler alongside the radiator?

Thermostat part #2 in diag.

View attachment 311952

Click to expand...

That one.