Freelander 1 Auto 1.8

[andyfreelandy]

If you can stick with 1.8 starter and R75 auto flex and torque life might be a bit simpler !!? Don't know how the Jatco will accommodate the starter bendix though.

 

[andyfreelandy]

Using circuitry from RAVE and a similar manual for the Rover 75 the following are the wiring differences between the Engine ECU for each vehicle (Terminal numbers given for ECU):
Idle Air Control Valve (IACV) - Freelander uses 4 wires, Rover 75 uses 3 wires. C0914-50 used on Freelander and not Rover 75.

Switch Dual Pressure (A/C Pressure Sensor) - Freelander uses C0913-70, 71 &57 to Pressure Sensor. Rover 75 uses C0913 -56 & 70 to a Trinary Switch.

Sensor Evaporator - Rover 75 has no sensor evaporator on circuits. Freelander uses C0914 - 37 & 47.

Throttle Pedal Switch - Rover 75 has no throttle pedal switch - Freelander uses C0913 - 77.

ABS - Freelander uses C0913 - 65 & 79 to ECU ABS (CAN) Rover 75 uses C0913 - 64 to ECU ABS and C0913 - 65 & 79 to Instrument Pack (manual gearbox) and Header K109 (auto). This could just be a different configuration of the CANBUS and be electrically o.k.

PAS Sensor - Rover 75 uses a Load sensor on the PAS on C0914 - 21,23 & 37. Freelander has no load sensor on the PAS.

Cooling Fan Unit - Freelander uses C0913 - 67 and Rover 75 uses C0913 - 67, 60 & 74

Rover 75 Turbo - Rover 75 Turbo uses C0914 - 19 & 48 for the Boost Pressure Sensor. Unable to locate the wiring for the Turbo Vacuum Solenoid Control.

I know that you have already identified some of these differences (IACV) & Throttle Switch - but hopefully this will act as a checklist.

 

[pscan.eu]

I haven't figured out how to drive a Freelander cooling fan from the R75 ECU. These seems important.

 

[Nodge68]

I haven't figured out how to drive a Freelander cooling fan from the R75 ECU. These seems important.

How does the cooling fan function in the R75?

 

[pscan.eu]

I'm back from the inlaws.
Yesterday I went back to the scrap V6 and took a load more parts.
Rear diff to match the IRD that I already took.
Complete wiring loom, well 99% of it. That took a few hours to remove (I had to remove the dash and the cabin blower motor).
Both front drive shafts.
Auto pedal box and accelerator pedal.
Gear selector.
I nearly managed to cut off one of the sills, but it's hard going at the back end due to so many layers of skin, so I'll have to go back for a third visit

I also have a problem which I'll mention as maybe someone can help.
The Freelander V6 torque converter has a 60 tooth crank sensor "cog", but the Rover 75 ECU expects a 36 tooth one.
I have been looking for a Rover 75 1.8 torque converter but I can only find two for sale (actually the whole gearbox) and they are super expensive. If that's what I have to do then that's what I'll do, but of course there's no guarantee that a 1.8 torque converter will even work properly with a Freelander Jatco box.
The other option I can think of is to get a 75 1.8 manual flywheel and, if the sensor teeth are the same diameter, cut the ring off and weld it to the Freelander V6 torque converter.
If anyone has any other ideas please say.
I suppose the upside of getting a complete 1.8 auto box is that it would give me a plan B of front wheel drive only if I could get the drive shafts to work.

 

[pscan.eu]

some good news. The crank sensor ring on a Rover 75 1.8 manual flywheel is the same diameter as the one on my V6 torque converter.
I may have to get a manual flywheel/dual mass flywheel and cut the middle out of it to make a ring, and weld that to my V6 torque converter.
I don't know how easy it would be to do such a thing.
Anyone know any machine shops not too far from London who have a lathe big enough to do something like that?

 

[Alibro]

some good news. The crank sensor ring on a Rover 75 1.8 manual flywheel is the same diameter as the one on my V6 torque converter.
I may have to get a manual flywheel/dual mass flywheel and cut the middle out of it to make a ring, and weld that to my V6 torque converter.
I don't know how easy it would be to do such a thing.
Anyone know any machine shops not too far from London who have a lathe big enough to do something like that?

Aren't they heat shrunk onto the flywheel in which case a grinder to the centre might remove it?

 

[pscan.eu]

according to LUK the starter ring is shrunk on but the crank sensor teeth are machined into the body.
At least the thing exists. Metal can be cut and shaped.

 

[pscan.eu]

Back to the problem that the hill decent warning light comes on if I touch the throttle pedal with a Rover 75 ECU:-
I thought I would have a go at recreating this fault with the stock Freelander ECU.
The theory is that the TC warning comes on because the Freelander has an idle switch as well as a position sensor, whereas the 75 only has the position sensor.
On the freelander I found a sensor on the actual accelerator pedal with three wires going to it, there's a metal plate on the pedal that touches the sensor at idle. I assume it's some kind of hall effect or magneting sensor.
Haynes shows a switch with two wires.
When I unplug the sensor with three wires, and rev the engine, I don't get TC warning light.
Am I unplugging the wrong thing?

 

[Alibro]

I'm struggling to remember exactly but isn't there an issue with the 1.8 where the hdc light comes on if the throttle cable is too tight at the throttle body. It only comes on after the car reaches 5 or 10mph.
I may have made that up but if not it might give another clue to how it works.
Maybe someone else can confirm it.

 

[Nodge68]

I'm struggling to remember exactly but isn't there an issue with the 1.8 where the hdc light comes on if the throttle cable is too tight at the throttle body. It only comes on after the car reaches 5 or 10mph.
I may have made that up but if not it might give another clue to how it works.
Maybe someone else can confirm it.

That's correct, and the KV6 too. Basically the throttle potentiometer and pedal switch need to be in synchronisation, or the TC light comes on. I had this after I replaced the engine on my V6, but was easily fixed by adding a bit more slack to the throttle cable.

 

[pscan.eu]

That's correct, and the KV6 too. Basically the throttle potentiometer and pedal switch need to be in synchronisation, or the TC light comes on. I had this after I replaced the engine on my V6, but was easily fixed by adding a bit more slack to the throttle cable.

but that's the thing, with the stock 1.8 K series ECU I can't replicate this. I can't get the TC light to come on. Surely disconnecting the pedal switch and applying some throttle should/would cause the TC light to come on? but it doesn't.

 

[Nodge68]

but that's the thing, with the stock 1.8 K series ECU I can't replicate this. I can't get the TC light to come on. Surely disconnecting the pedal switch and applying some throttle should/would cause the TC light to come on? but it doesn't.

So that suggests that the ECM doesn't see the switch signal, which would make sense if the doner vehicle doesn't have TC.

 

[pscan.eu]

So that suggests that the ECM doesn't see the switch signal, which would make sense if the doner vehicle doesn't have TC.

Right now I have the original Freelander engine ECU installed, not a donor one.
I'm trying to replicate the problem that I get with the donor ECU, but with the original Freelander ECU.
So, with a totally stock Freelander 1.8, if I disconnect the throttle switch I should get TC warning light when I rev the engine shouldn't I? I don't.

 

[andyfreelandy]

RAVE shows 3 wires on throttle position sensor, purple/blk, purple/pink and green/yellow. The throttle switch has 2 wires shown as blue/yellow and black.
I would expect, as you do, the TC to be thrown up when switch is disconnected. Check you have the switch and not sensor disconnected, although I am surprised it revs up if the wrong one is disconnected?!?!

 

[pscan.eu]

I think that that the throttle position sensor is on the throttle body, under the bonnet, whereas the switch is on the pedal, so not that easy to mix up.
Haynes shows only two wires on the throttle switch but I think that actually I have an hall effect "electronic" switch with three wires, but it still grounds the wire to the ECU (pin 77) when the pedal is moved so not such a big deal.
I continuity tested the blue/yellow wire from the switch to pin 77 to the ECU so I'm really, really confident that it is the switch that I've disconnected.

 

[pscan.eu]

I don't know if it helps but when I was testing prior to starting my EV build I found the CAN signal that turns on HDC.
I have the details on page one of the EV build thread.

I have an update for your topic.
ARBID: 0x329
-B5 - Throttle position Sensor (00-FE).
-B7 - is a copy of B5 on my Freelander, and always a zero with my Rover 75 ECU.

I am about 90% sure that this is why I get TC warning lights when I touch the throttle with a Rover 75 ECU but not with a Freelander ECU, because the copy of B5 into B7 is missing.

I have a theory that some Freelander ECUs will copy B5 into B7 only if the throttle switch is activated. My ECU appears to have this functionality missing, because the throttle switch effectively does nothing (no impact if disconnected). I think that LR probably removed the feature to reduce the number of 3 amigos coming up; but that's just my theory.

 

[Alibro]

I have an update for your topic.
ARBID: 0x329
-B5 - Throttle position Sensor (00-FE).
-B7 - is a copy of B5 on my Freelander, and always a zero with my Rover 75 ECU.

I am about 90% sure that this is why I get TC warning lights when I touch the throttle with a Rover 75 ECU but not with a Freelander ECU, because the copy of B5 into B7 is missing.

I have a theory that some Freelander ECUs will copy B5 into B7 only if the throttle switch is activated. My ECU appears to have this functionality missing, because the throttle switch effectively does nothing (no impact if disconnected). I think that LR probably removed the feature to reduce the number of 3 amigos coming up; but that's just my theory.

Thanks
I'll update my post.
I'm pretty sure I'll need to send CAN messages to the dash to clear the HDC and other fault codes but I don't care if the HDC works as the car will be a Mall crawler.
I probably won't have the ECU at all but still not certain.

 

[pscan.eu]

A Rover 75 1.8 dual mass flywheel arrived yesterday.

anyone know how to split them in half? Presumably I smash out those two pins first?
I also need to remove the starter ring which I've never done before.

 

[pscan.eu]

More news.

My son tells me that he has access to the metal working place at his uni. He's a physics student and he can book time and use it, but he's not a machinist. Still, maybe I can go with him and do it myself or slip some money to one of the technicians there.
He also has a friend who is a technician/machinist in Oxford making custom parts for his job.

Also Andrew just sent me a firmware for my Rover 75 ECU which runs on the Freelander 1 and allows me to rev the engine without Hill Descent warning. I think that he lifted the logic from the Freelander 1 ECU CANbus output and overlaid it onto the Rover 75 one. He's incredibly clever.