As bad as it, is we have to be lucky that JLR are mostly still designed and produced here in the UK and are mostly thriving with better sales than ever. Indeed if they wanted to make the Defender safer they could. The emissions thing is bollox its a 2.2 modern doosil engine from a ford tdci, don't see the EU moaning about them do you. G wagon doesn't sell that well, how many do you see around? And they are stupidly overpriced and are like taking a boat off road. As I've said many times, it is unfortunately time for a change but they don't need to make it a bad one. They COULD do something fantastic if they wanted, there are some great engineers and designers at JLR. We just have to pray that it still remains a real 4x4 with solid axles (PLEASE DEAR GOD) and hopefully a ladder frame chassis (even the current Jeep wrangler has this come on). Option of a 3.0 TDV6 would be pleasant too > .

D90mitch said:

The emissions thing is bollox its a 2.2 modern doosil engine from a ford tdci, don't see the EU moaning about them do you.

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Perhaps you will answer the question about getting the TDCi engine from the Transit to pass the upcoming Euro 6 emissions test (and cut CO2 emissions by around 70g/km), while carrying the extra weight and running gear of the Defender and still being able to operate at crazy lean angles and be capable of being totally immersed in water?

While you're at it, perhaps you can then explain how they are going to fit an airbag into a cabin that's too confined to be able to safely deploy one, from a steering column that can't be modified to accept one?

Like the Rover Mini before it, the Defender has used "grandfather rights" for years to bypass safety and emission regs that would have legislated other more modern cars off the road. (the Mini's fuel tank position would never have passed the then current safety regs) I believe that LR may also run out of luck using some of their grandfather rights around 2015.

D90mitch said:

G wagon doesn't sell that well, how many do you see around?

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I see plenty around here, I'd say it's one of the better selling 4x4s on the mainland of Europe. Not to mention that the (French, German, Swiss) Army still use them as general use vehicles.

Tigger said:

Perhaps you will answer the question about getting the TDCi engine from the Transit to pass the upcoming Euro 6 emissions test (and cut CO2 emissions by around 70g/km), while carrying the extra weight and running gear of the Defender and still being able to operate at crazy lean angles and be capable of being totally immersed in water?

While you're at it, perhaps you can then explain how they are going to fit an airbag into a cabin that's too confined to be able to safely deploy one, from a steering column that can't be modified to accept one?

Like the Rover Mini before it, the Defender has used "grandfather rights" for years to bypass safety and emission regs that would have legislated other more modern cars off the road. (the Mini's fuel tank position would never have passed then current safety regs) I believe that LR will also run out of luck using some of the grandfather rights around 2015.

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With all due respect to your friend in Land Rover, I don't think those are insurmountable problems. Defender is lighter than the Discovery 4, and yet the D4 has an engine which does all of that and still passes the regs (and gets reasonable consumption), so fit it in the Defender. I'll grant you that the cabin is small, but then rather than having one large bag, fit a number of smaller ones. I'd redesign the bulkhead so that the flare sat a little wider, in order to give a bit more depth to the door bottoms, and sit the airbags in compartments that went deeper into the engine bay. The steering column might need some work, but if the stories are true the Freelander 2 was completely mocked up before anyone worked out where the steering system should run.

The beauty of Defender is the adaptability: you can use the same base vehicle as a pick-up, van, station wagon or whatever, and many of those components are interchangeable over many years. Provided JLR kept the basic dimensions of the roof and load bed cappings, there's a great deal of leeway available in bulkhead location, engine bay etc. It could be done, and it would still be essentially a Defender (and most importantly, allow the many third party suppliers to keep their lines going).

The issue with getting the airbag to work on the Discovery was the influence that the ladder chassis had on the steering column position in the event of a heavy front end accident. The way that the ladder chassis deformed mean that the steering column would be pushed up and forward into a position that would render an airbag worse than useless. Apparently it took some properly Brunel style engineering to keep the column in the correct place and it was as much by good luck, as good judgment, that they could get it to work!

The greatest hope that I have for the Defender is that LR will come up with a fully redesigned version of the same thing - a modern Defender that can do all of these things we've described. I fear that we'll wind up with stylised pastiche instead...

the_wolf said:

Well if someone wanted to give me one I wouldn't say no

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I beg your pardon?!

Tigger said:

The greatest hope that I have for the Defender is that LR will come up with a fully redesigned version of the same thing - a modern Defender that can do all of these things we've described. I fear that we'll wind up with stylised pastiche instead...

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I think provided it has a demountable hard top of the same dimensions, whatever goes on underneath will be fine. Why the same dimensions? So that all the accessories that have been built for Series and Defender will still fit. And demountable, for obvious reasons - the beauty of Defender is its versatility.

But that would still require a ladder chassis. Which our friend Eeyore seems to think can't be done despite other vehicles on the current market having ladder chassis'

the_wolf said:

But that would still require a ladder chassis. Which our friend Eeyore seems to think can't be done despite other vehicles on the current market having ladder chassis'

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Not necessarily. Plenty of soft top cars don't have a ladder chassis, and yet are stiff enough. You simply have to make the tub strong without the roof. Given that the windscreen hasn't folded for many years, it should be possible to include the frame as a load-bearing member.

But yes, ladder chassis vehicles still have plenty of life in them, and getting the steering right isn't insurmountable.