Michalis Karatzis

Michalis Karatzis

Active Member
New owner here of a 2002 Td5 Auto with 190k kms. Any help is much appreciated.

Car presents the following issues:
- When I start the car it doesn't shift from 1st to 2nd unless if I drive for 1km at 3+k rpm (~40km/h). After it does shift everything works perfectly normal. Is only the first shift that is very reluctant to take place. Normally it shifts from 1st to 2nd at around 25km/h 2200rpm.
- If it doesn't present the issue mentioned above it takes off in second gear when I start from a stop. It does this for the first 4-5 minutes. After that it decided to operate normally and start in 1st.
- Torque converter is not always willing to lock even when the conditions are met. Not a big issue though, it does lock eventually.

What should I check first?
 
Michalis Karatzis said:
New owner here of a 2002 Td5 Auto with 190k kms. Any help is much appreciated.

Car presents the following issues:
- When I start the car it doesn't shift from 1st to 2nd unless if I drive for 1km at 3+k rpm (~40km/h). After it does shift everything works perfectly normal. Is only the first shift that is very reluctant to take place. Normally it shifts from 1st to 2nd at around 25km/h 2200rpm.
- If it doesn't present the issue mentioned above it takes off in second gear when I start from a stop. It does this for the first 4-5 minutes. After that it decided to operate normally and start in 1st.
- Torque converter is not always willing to lock even when the conditions are met. Not a big issue though, it does lock eventually.

What should I check first?
Click to expand...

hi

would start with the basics first , the ATF oil

1) has it been changed
2) oil level is ok
3) what it looks like when u drain some out

know the more experienced guys here will also be able to steer u in the right direction,
 
I'd agree with that and just add if you change the ATF do the filter as well.There are good threads on here to show you how and the proper way to refill,that's important to do in the right way
 
Joemac434 said:
I'd agree with that and just add if you change the ATF do the filter as well.There are good threads on here to show you how and the proper way to refill,that's important to do in the right way
Click to expand...

hi

plus 1 , ref the filter , at least then u know its been done :D
 
If the old oil in the box is really mucky and stinky, you might need to go through the oil-change sequence more than once. When draining the box, not all the contents are removed.
 
Oil change (& filter) was going to be my first option, glad not to hear anything more major recommended.
Will try do that tomorrow morning and get back to you. I will do another oil change after 200 miles as I see this suggested in many places.
Thanks!
 
Sounds like you got it under control, wasn't going to nag about the next change until later! If the first one makes a marked improvement at least then you know you're on the right track.Let us know how it goes.Hope it sorts it
 
Forgot one thing,give the sport button a few goes next time you drive it just in case it's got confused and sticking between that and normal
 
brian47 said:
If the old oil in the box is really mucky and stinky, you might need to go through the oil-change sequence more than once. When draining the box, not all the contents are removed.
Click to expand...

hi

hope u don’t mind me asking and out of curiosity, what oils and filter do u recommend for these boxes plse, thks
 
gstuart said:
hi

hope u don’t mind me asking and out of curiosity, what oils and filter do u recommend for these boxes plse, thks
Click to expand...
I'm no expert but I use ATF Dx I I I made by shell,bit pricey but hope cos from them it's quality.and used OEM filters that I got form jgs 4x4 and new gaskets from there too
 
gstuart said:
hi

hope u don’t mind me asking and out of curiosity, what oils and filter do u recommend for these boxes plse, thks
Click to expand...
@Joemac434 is correct, ATF Dexron III is the recommended auto gearbox oil and I get most of my filters from JGS4x4 too, so if I had an autobox that's where I'd be looking.
 
Joemac434 said:
I'm no expert but I use ATF Dx I I I made by shell,bit pricey but hope cos from them it's quality.and used OEM filters that I got form jgs 4x4 and new gaskets from there too
Click to expand...

As above, use a good ATF Dex III - we use Castrol here, but shell and others will be good stuff too. Steer well clear of unbranded or cheap oil.

For the minimal extra cost, I'd also recommend a genuine ZF filter - from wherever you like ;)

You might need to change the oil more than once to do the job properly, as, unless the internal seals of the TQ are leaking, the TQ will retain most of the oil...

Loads of useful info about the failure modes of the ZF4HP22 on the ashcroft site:-

www.ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk
 
cheers guys for the great info , was out of curiosity :D:D

took me a while to find what gearbox and oil i had in mine , its the ZF 6HP and read a lot ref all the different oils

first looked in the owners manual and said the gearbox is sealed for life

think the genuine atf oil is £30 per litre , further reading i see the dextron lll is a big no no for mine

so went for the Ravenol , got some Atf, special transfer and front and rear diff oil

was interesting as i first thought for the front and rear diff of just filling it up to the level plug , job done , but oh no , got to measure it out and then add it

see many get there gearboxes flushed out, personally i’ve never been keen on using a machine but the preferred olde method of giving 2-3 manual oil changes , giving it around 500 x miles in between atf oil changes

just reading up further ref the autobox filter and having the remove the entire sump and filter

many thks once again, apologises digressing again from the op thread, lol
 
Disco1BFG said:
This:-

And this:-

Are all part of the plan to get you to buy another one when the gearbox wears out due to the oil being knackered. Bar stewards :mad::mad::mad:.
Click to expand...

Nah, surely not , they wouldn’t do such a thing, :eek::eek::eek::eek:;)

another reason i’m making sure i do a full oil change , lol
 
gstuart said:
Nah, surely not , they wouldn’t do such a thing, :eek::eek::eek::eek:;)
Click to expand...

Only if flying pigs become the norm o_O. The ZF 'boxes are beautiful bits of engineering, and would probably outlast us if looked after - and what do the car makers recommend ???? ... turn the oil into p*sh, and keep running it - morons :mad::mad::mad: ( rant over - but only temporarily;) )

How hard is it to get the sump orft a D3 AT?
 
Disco1BFG said:
Only if flying pigs become the norm o_O. The ZF 'boxes are beautiful bits of engineering, and would probably outlast us if looked after - and what do the car makers recommend ???? ... turn the oil into p*sh, and keep running it - morons :mad::mad::mad: ( rant over - but only temporarily;) )

How hard is it to get the sump orft a D3 AT?
Click to expand...

coming from a jatco to the ZF gearbox is like night and day , ZF far superior in its gear changes and most of the time u can’t even feel the gears changing with it being so smooth , want to keep it that way, lol

if u want to get the original sump off u have to remove the gearbox crossmember and drop the back of the engine , the sump kits u don’t have to do any of that , drop the original sump pan down, cut through the filter pipe and slide out , then new kit u can fit new filter first then sump pan

from many threads that i’ve read where people have done the pan modification the filters are still very clean , even after 100-150,000 miles

this is the ATF oil i got, good quality oil without paying land rover prices ;)

3CAC2AC0-2C73-447A-B9BE-0EC6BACFB84C.jpeg
 
Oil porn! :D ;) ........:)

If it's approved by ZF, it'll be right :) - god we need some more emoticons - where's the big thumbs up one FFS ??!?!?!??! :rolleyes:

I've had cause to speak to ZF technical about things over the years, and I have always found them thoroughly professional, highly knowledgeable and yet still retaining a sense of humour = respect.

gstuart said:
if u want to get the original sump off u have to remove the gearbox crossmember and drop the back of the engine , the sump kits u don’t have to do any of that , drop the original sump pan down, cut through the filter pipe and slide out , then new kit u can fit new filter first then sump pan
Click to expand...

Shame you're so far away - sounds like a ramp job to me.... ;)

gstuart said:
from many threads that i’ve read where people have done the pan modification the filters are still very clean , even after 100-150,000 miles
Click to expand...

Good quality box then!! - still worth changing the oil - I do my 4HP22 every 25K
 
Disco1BFG said:
Oil porn! :D ;) ........:)

If it's approved by ZF, it'll be right :) - god we need some more emoticons - where's the big thumbs up one FFS ??!?!?!??! :rolleyes:

I've had cause to speak to ZF technical about things over the years, and I have always found them thoroughly professional, highly knowledgeable and yet still retaining a sense of humour = respect.



Shame you're so far away - sounds like a ramp job to me.... ;)



Good quality box then!! - still worth changing the oil - I do my 4HP22 every 25K
Click to expand...

lol, would be nice to have some more emojis

indeed , have done my homework over many months to ensure the oil is ZF compliant , heard a few people filled there’s up with the dexron 111 and really messed the box up

ramp would have been fantastic , also reading through the progress, of having the engine running and then checking the box oil level @35 c

mines just coming up to 100,000 miles , so would assume it’s never been touched

may i ask what do u think of gearbox powerflushes , personally i’ve always preferred doing a few changes with 500 x mile intervals
 
Power flush is a great idea in theory.....

BUT .....

How do you know which oil and miscellaneous sh*t has been through the machine before "they", "do", yours...... :eek: - and "if" they have cleaned it properly ..... <- probably a stupid question, they probably haven't !!

Th rather obvious answer means I agree that just changing the oil as you say is the safer option. Also, the "danger" of changing the full oil load, with the nice fresh detergent in, is that some crud will get loosened in the box, which could then jam the governor wide open :eek:, which is less than ideal :rolleyes: - much better IMHO, to change part of the oil with its attendant detergent quantity and hope it loosens the sh*t gradually, to be caught by the filter.....
 
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