no way!! thats too short fer him
Jeez Charlsey you talking about TVO Fergies???
I understand what you are saying about resistance etc, but how come WHEN i do get her started she will start fine all day?? My first thought was maybe the oil was thick as hell, but it aint.
warm/hot engines turns over much easier, ergo less work fer your KNACKERED STARTER to do
Jeez Charlsey you talking about TVO Fergies???
My diesel Fergie had KiGass. Man up the road has it now. Yesterday he was complaining the KiGass wasn't pumping and the Fergie wasn't staring in the cold. I showed him the tap on the outlet from the kero tank, and the little darling just exploded into life after a quick heat and a squirt of kero!
My Davie Broon has a heater flame plug on the return fuel line. Works quite well, but it isn't in the same league as KiGass.
I understand what you are saying about resistance etc, but how come WHEN i do get her started she will start fine all day?? My first thought was maybe the oil was thick as hell, but it aint.
Ah yes, well that is because several important starting factors stay good more or less all day.
These are
1. the engine's innards are not freezing cold - the less cold the better.
2. pistons, cylinders, and bearings are easier to move, thus upping the speed of rotation on starter - the faster the better.
3. the injection pump, pipes and injectors are "primed" full of fuel. This makes it much faster for the injection pump to hit full pressures at the injectors. Until that happens there won't be no injection.
4. the battery voltage is well up and the battery is WARM.
My Def 90 would NEVER start of a morning without a good glow (it was a big black button) but after it had been running a little while there was no need for any glow for the rest of the day.
On VERY cold conditions, it may actually help you to start a petrol Landy engine if you turn the headlights on full beam for about half a minute. The current draw across the internal resistance of the battery warms it up, and then the batty will give heaps more power for a frisky start. Guess what! Using glow plugs does the same in a diesel! Taking 60 or 70 amps for 20 seconds warms your frozen batty a treat.
The compression ratio in diesel engines is as LOW as they can get away with and still get the engine started from cold. In almost all car diesels, the CR is so low the engine will not start unless it gets a good glow, but once it's running the glow is stopped for the duration. The LOW compression makes the engine smoother, and quieter.
For a really sure cold start without a glow or other aids, will need a compression ratio of about THIRTY to one. My 1942 Lister CS has variable compression ratio. High for cold starts (about 28:1) and normal for running on load (about 20:1 I think). It will NOT start cold on low compression, but it sure does on high.
Amazing stuff we can learn on this forum huh?
I want to pass as much as possible of it on before I pop my clogs.
CharlesY
series 3 sweet 16
Active Member
try a better and HIgher amp battery
Pikey
Dummy Ejection Facilitator..
Sweet don't go replying to posts just because you can. He doesn't need a better Battery, If you read all the posts in this thread you'll see he's had lots of advice tips on improving the starting of his landy. Fine if you've got something new to say. But try thinking about it before you post.
series 3 sweet 16
Active Member
OK OK ok LOL happy xmas guy's and girls
Codbasher
New Member
Sorted...
Checked all the terminals etc, fine in mild weather still sluggish to a point of wont start in the cold, bought another earth strap from engine to Batt, no change...
So bugger it off to Halfords, biggest batt I could find 760 somthing or other, now the bloody thing spins so fast it dont need glow plugs, result..
Checked all the terminals etc, fine in mild weather still sluggish to a point of wont start in the cold, bought another earth strap from engine to Batt, no change...
So bugger it off to Halfords, biggest batt I could find 760 somthing or other, now the bloody thing spins so fast it dont need glow plugs, result..
Which means that all the other bits that were mentioned in the thread must be in good nick, because any if one of the critical things is below par, you could fit the battery from the QE2 and it still would not start.
Hmmm.... I wonder what size battery the QE2 uses ..... ?
CharlesY
Hmmm.... I wonder what size battery the QE2 uses ..... ?
CharlesY
stevieb42
New Member
QE2'S POWER PLANT IS DIESEL ELECTRIC, a system chosen for its inherent reliability and flexibility. In 1986/87, in an operation costing £100m, nine medium speed MAN L58/64 nine cylinder turbo charged diesel engines were fitted, in place of the aging and fuel thirsty steam plant. The diesel engines drive C.E.C. generators, and each develop 10.5 MW of electrical power at 10,000 volts. Each engine weighs approximately 120 tons.
Water247
New Member
CharlesY, I found both your posts very informative so please don't stop with the full explanations. Not to say Slobs short sharp stuff isn't equally as useful but different strokes for different folks and I find your deconstructions simple and they paint a very complete picture.
Slob, maybe I am not typical but I am not 'just' after getting my Landy working (don't get me wrong, that is a big part of it and I really appreciate the help of this site and people like you) but I also got my Landy as an opportunity to learn all the things I never had an opportunity to as a boy. I have ample intelligence but just lack experience in electrical or mechanical engineering so my capacity for detailed posts is perfectly adequate. I could go and read a book but I personally remember far more from people than reading. Besides, I might have to read a whole book (or at least a chapter) to understand the information specific to my Landy, whereas the info on here (even the more bloated post ) is always quite specific and normally going to be at least in some way relevant.
Only wanted to post as I really value this site and would hate to see the great variety of info on here diminish in any way.
Merry Christmas! I for one am off to get sloshed
Slob, maybe I am not typical but I am not 'just' after getting my Landy working (don't get me wrong, that is a big part of it and I really appreciate the help of this site and people like you) but I also got my Landy as an opportunity to learn all the things I never had an opportunity to as a boy. I have ample intelligence but just lack experience in electrical or mechanical engineering so my capacity for detailed posts is perfectly adequate. I could go and read a book but I personally remember far more from people than reading. Besides, I might have to read a whole book (or at least a chapter) to understand the information specific to my Landy, whereas the info on here (even the more bloated post
) is always quite specific and normally going to be at least in some way relevant.Only wanted to post as I really value this site and would hate to see the great variety of info on here diminish in any way.
Merry Christmas! I for one am off to get sloshed
oxides
Well-Known Member
OK, I'm going to throw a spanner in the works here. The standard cables - as long as they are not corroded under the insulation - are low enough resistance.
When you start the car a very high current flows through the motor creating a lot of torque, the motor rapidly spins up and produces a back Electro Motive Force. The back EMF is a voltage that opposes the battery voltage and therefore limits the current. If the motor stalls or runs slowly the back EMF disappears and the current rises until it's limited by the very low resistance of the motor windings. Hence the wires that are normally able to cope with the bit of surge current and the lower running current now carry a much greater current and get hot.
The moral is that motors are not purely resistive devices. Isn't physics fun?
When you start the car a very high current flows through the motor creating a lot of torque, the motor rapidly spins up and produces a back Electro Motive Force. The back EMF is a voltage that opposes the battery voltage and therefore limits the current. If the motor stalls or runs slowly the back EMF disappears and the current rises until it's limited by the very low resistance of the motor windings. Hence the wires that are normally able to cope with the bit of surge current and the lower running current now carry a much greater current and get hot.
The moral is that motors are not purely resistive devices. Isn't physics fun?
Basically speaking, what the man means is that when the starter motor is stalled, it is a nearly dead short electrically. Once it spins up (and they run VERY fast) the current is controlled, but it is still by far the biggest current using device in a car.
Think HUNDREDS of amps of current.
No, a 30 amp fuse won't do, nor even a 300 amp fuse!
CharlesY
