fortgrange
Active Member
All I say is I've detailed quite a few of my motors and they have looked the dogs dangly bits, where as my attempts at spraying have looked more like a dogs turd after a curry!!! So on that basis I would say detailing is much easier to master. But then again I did not have access to a spray booth, air line etc,etc, so that might have made a difference.
Rob Edge
Repairer of scratches and scrapes.
As some described supagaurd earlier. Snakeoil comes to mind.
:hysterically_laughi
Put a clean rag on a car with a wax on it. Give it a rub. Their you go, now you are polishing. It takes a lot more dexterity and skill to get paint at the correct thickness in the correct place and make it hold position.
Wth the right conditions and a bit of knowledge you can achieve fantastic results outside of a booth. It's more about controlling the conditions to lessen the chance of inclusions like dust, flies and silicones. If you had the prep right then the result will be fine. I have seen some pretty poor work come out of a booth in the past because I did a spell in quality control.
apart from really expensive waxes, my expirience of detailing -
a good clean
then panel by panel -
clay bar
farclia paint renovator
autoglym super resin polish
simoniz tin caranuba wax
, gives fantastic results !!
the simoniz wax is in a gold tin from halfords £7.99, thats by far better than any liquid wax, , a ball ache to apply but it gives superb protection and water beading and durability, 1 coat now will last all winter
i also use meguiars extreme durability caranuba wax, but its a liquid, easy to apply but doesnt last or protect like the simoniz tin stuff, but you can build it up giving a coat a week for a few weeks
im no expert- but you dont polish afteer waxing
what i use, is demon shine !! after its all waxed, a quick was when needed and when drying use demon shine from a apray bottle (keep eyes open in asda for demon shine in big bottle for penuts) it gives a super shine and rids any water marks etc
a good clean
then panel by panel -
clay bar
farclia paint renovator
autoglym super resin polish
simoniz tin caranuba wax
, gives fantastic results !!
the simoniz wax is in a gold tin from halfords £7.99, thats by far better than any liquid wax, , a ball ache to apply but it gives superb protection and water beading and durability, 1 coat now will last all winter
i also use meguiars extreme durability caranuba wax, but its a liquid, easy to apply but doesnt last or protect like the simoniz tin stuff, but you can build it up giving a coat a week for a few weeks
im no expert- but you dont polish afteer waxing
what i use, is demon shine !! after its all waxed, a quick was when needed and when drying use demon shine from a apray bottle (keep eyes open in asda for demon shine in big bottle for penuts) it gives a super shine and rids any water marks etc
Erm, no. Wax/sealant whatever is PROTECTION, not polish. Polish is abrasive and is used to refine a surface, be it painted, glass etc. In other words, the get the shine.
Wax or sealant on the other hand is protection of a highly polished surface from the elements such as acid rain etc. New paint might look shiny for a while but if left unprotected it will soon dull off and oxidise. Same thing with a newly polished surface. Ever seen a pink Vauxhall that started life as red? That'll be unprotected paint oxidising then.
And as was admitted previously, polishers (buffing machines) + novice + swage line = Whoops. Polishing or refining a finish is a skill, not to be confused with a quick T-Cut by hand which anyone can do. Also not to be confused with plastering the car with G3 and going over it with a machine for an hour inflicting buffer trails and holograms, and burning all the window rubbers whilst at it. That is known as butchery.
Rob Edge
Repairer of scratches and scrapes.
The term polish refers to the action of making a surface flat and shiny. The material used is termed a compound. Componds vary from coarse, medium, fine and machine finish grades. Some compounds contain filler agents which give a quick shine but it is not long lived. The latest compounds have a three stage effect which means by lowering the applied pressure from firm to soft you will achieve the finished surface with one product. You then apply a thin coat of wax to offer some protection. The old corsa and astra didn't go pink due to oxidation. It was entirely down to low light fastness pigmentation of the paint. An oxidised surface can be polished but when it is uv bleached it will not come back.
Dopey
Well-Known Member
What kind of wax do you use on a classic car? If you’re the sort of person who only uses the best of everything on your pampered vehicle, then the answer is clear—you need the most expensive wax in the world.
Swizöl International’s Divine – $2,800
The most expensive car wax in the world over shadows this $2800 price tag by a long shot. Zymol Solaris Glaze retails and an almost insulting $45,000. You do get unlimited refills for life and only 25 containers will ever be made available if that makes you feel better. At this point there are only 7 left. Also from Zymol is their Royal Glaze that retails for $8,400, and there Vintage Glaze that hovers around $2,200.
Swizöl International’s Divine – $2,800
The most expensive car wax in the world over shadows this $2800 price tag by a long shot. Zymol Solaris Glaze retails and an almost insulting $45,000. You do get unlimited refills for life and only 25 containers will ever be made available if that makes you feel better. At this point there are only 7 left. Also from Zymol is their Royal Glaze that retails for $8,400, and there Vintage Glaze that hovers around $2,200.
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Rob Edge
Repairer of scratches and scrapes.
People who drive Land Rovers and frequent forums will usually use a supermarket jetwash or the local iraqi hand wash. Wax is something used to make candles. Only a total muppet would pay that price for a car wax. The same muppets will usually pay someone £2000 to "detail" a car. Fools and money are soon parted.
You're not wrong. Although 2 grand is sometimes cheap.
And No, I don't consider it good value. Talented bloke though.Miracle Detail present the £6000 Ultimate Wet Sand Detail on a BMW M5 E39 - 49 hours - - Detailing World -
Rob Edge
Repairer of scratches and scrapes.
Only a complete muppet would pay £6000 for a job which effectively would cost about 8 hrs labour at a top end bodyshop.You're not wrong. Although 2 grand is sometimes cheap.
Miracle Detail present the £6000 Ultimate Wet Sand Detail on a BMW M5 E39 - 49 hours - - Detailing World -
Yeah, way overpriced for sure but there isn't a bodyshop in the world who could get that finish or quality in 8 hours. Burnt window rubbers, buffer trails, holograms and damaged plastics yes, but that finish, no.
Bodyshops are the very reason such "Detailing" services exist. There is a market for this, for example on show cars, concours etc. Quite a few of the cars I've done for people have been to clean up the mess left behind by the bodyshop.
Bodyshops are the very reason such "Detailing" services exist. There is a market for this, for example on show cars, concours etc. Quite a few of the cars I've done for people have been to clean up the mess left behind by the bodyshop.
Rob Edge
Repairer of scratches and scrapes.
Looking at it from the other side I have had to respray cars that have been "detailed" to death. I find it a bit odd that you think it isn't possible. I am talking shops that paint Ferrari, Bentley etc which due to the cost of the car and the owner being a fruitcake they have to be perfect. I have never had to employ a detailer to get the desired result because all of the painters that I know are professionals. My point is that detailing came over from custom shops in America which bury the entire car in filler to obtain a smooth surface. I had an Escalade in that had been customed and detailed which was a right mess. The car belonged to a guy called Mr R. Ferdinand.
Yes, I accept that there are crap detailers out there, although by the very nature of what they do they are extremely rare. The crap ones tend to be valeters who are trying to command a higher price based on a word.
But the rest of your arguments don't stack up, the fact you feel it necessary to name drop clearly proves this. You might have sounded more plausible had you posted up some photographic evidence. Being a celebrity doesn't bring any guarantee of taste, ability to see quality etc. In your case the name brings one thing, the ability to kick a ball accurately. (if my assumption on the name behind the 'R' is correct of course)
The terms may have come from the USA but the methods don't. And detailers don't use filler last time I checked. Why would they? Nodge and bodge are the reserve of the painter, mainly because lead loading, or body soldering is all but dead now, simply because there aren't the skills any more. Same thing with panel beating, english wheeling etc.
Detailing is a terms which is massively overused but it revolves around paying attention to all the details, however minor. It isn't painting a car, it's about taking what's there and making it as good as it can possibly be. For those people who don't understand the term "good enough", or "That'll do". Or possibly for people who understand that respraying a car like a classic BMW M5 would destroy it's originality and thus its value, in much the same way as the brute force of a bodyshop compounding it would.
Not quite sure why it's necessary to call people fruitcakes simply because they own a nice car either. Some are, some aren't but it's got nowt to do with driving a nice motor. The fact that the owners are discerning simply means they have enough money for cost not to be an issue when deciding on quality and their own personal taste.
But the rest of your arguments don't stack up, the fact you feel it necessary to name drop clearly proves this. You might have sounded more plausible had you posted up some photographic evidence. Being a celebrity doesn't bring any guarantee of taste, ability to see quality etc. In your case the name brings one thing, the ability to kick a ball accurately. (if my assumption on the name behind the 'R' is correct of course)
The terms may have come from the USA but the methods don't. And detailers don't use filler last time I checked. Why would they? Nodge and bodge are the reserve of the painter, mainly because lead loading, or body soldering is all but dead now, simply because there aren't the skills any more. Same thing with panel beating, english wheeling etc.
Detailing is a terms which is massively overused but it revolves around paying attention to all the details, however minor. It isn't painting a car, it's about taking what's there and making it as good as it can possibly be. For those people who don't understand the term "good enough", or "That'll do". Or possibly for people who understand that respraying a car like a classic BMW M5 would destroy it's originality and thus its value, in much the same way as the brute force of a bodyshop compounding it would.
Not quite sure why it's necessary to call people fruitcakes simply because they own a nice car either. Some are, some aren't but it's got nowt to do with driving a nice motor. The fact that the owners are discerning simply means they have enough money for cost not to be an issue when deciding on quality and their own personal taste.
Rob Edge
Repairer of scratches and scrapes.
I give up. I will leave all of you detailers to discuss away. My 27 years of professionalism and experience means sod all because afterall you know so much more than me. How silly of me to think that I could contribute anything of value. One last question. Why do detailers use DA polish machines? Answer because they lack the skill to use a rotary.
Dopey
Well-Known Member
My opinion is this...... if you go to a good sprayer,and he duz the job right, then you don't need to detail the cost of some detailing is more than a very good respray, and to me that makes no sense at all, unless the detaler is just doing the inside and not the body work, the only way detailing makes any sense is if its a lot cheaper than a spry job
So did I get that wrong? I didn't see where he said 6K
I don't know if your talking about another/different car? but someone said 8 hours? you must have been looking at something I missed
and I still think spraying is more of a skill
So did I get that wrong? I didn't see where he said 6K
I don't know if your talking about another/different car? but someone said 8 hours? you must have been looking at something I missed
and I still think spraying is more of a skill
In the same way you don't bother servicing an engine, you just change the whole lump every 10,000 miles. :doh:
EDIT. I should add, as I stated before, 6 grand is effin ridiculous. The owner clearly has more money than sense since he could have got the same result for about 500 quid. But there's no denying the workmanship and attention to detail is way above what comes out of 99% of bodyshops.
Miracle Detail present the £6000 Ultimate Wet Sand Detail on a BMW M5 E39 - 49 hours - - Detailing World -
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