Davie F said:
Wammers your right they should not be driven like a sports car and if you keep that in mind then what is the problem, wheather you like it or not mine feels very stable and planted when driven and we had that incident covered before and there was a hell of a lot more to blame than a set of coils (speed one of them). Enter a corner too fast in an M3 and you will have problems. Disagree totaly about the safety, if I thought that the coils compromised my or anyone else's safety then I would get rid of it, lift kits, oversized wheels, tuning boxes and bad maintenance are all culprits of safety, a decent set of coils are not. TBH I feel safer than when I had the EAS, but thats me and god knows how many more that have converted.
Davie
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Sadly Davie a lot of people do drive them like sports cars. You say it feels stable and planted. But basic physics will dipute that. Fact is your Rangie on coils is NOT as stable as one on air that is totally indisputable. The higher off the ground the C of G is placed, the more unstable in the roll axis it becomes. For everyone like you who drives in a reasonable manner knowing the capabilities of their vehicle and themselves. There are a thousand that don't. You sell your car on to one of these planks and he rolls it, which he may well not have done on standard suspension, how will you feel then? You have removed a built in safety feature that may one day have prevented an accident. Well not an accident because they are unavoidable and unforseeable occurances. A plank rolling a P38 on coils trying to take a corner too fast is totally foreseeable.
 
wammers said:
Sadly Davie a lot of people do drive them like sports cars. You say it feels stable and planted. But basic physics will dipute that. Fact is your Rangie on coils is NOT as stable as one on air that is totally indisputable. The higher off the ground the C of G is placed, the more unstable in the roll axis it becomes. For everyone like you who drives in a reasonable manner knowing the capabilities of their vehicle and themselves. There are a thousand that don't. You sell your car on to one of these planks and he rolls it, which he may well not have done on standard suspension, how will you feel then? You have removed a built in safety feature that may one day have prevented an accident. Well not an accident because they are unavoidable and unforseeable occurances. A plank rolling a P38 on coils trying to take a corner too fast is totally foreseeable.
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I wonder what the liability is if you sell on a P38 on coils and the buyer is injured or killed in a roll over accident? Could be nasty in these sue for anything times:eek:
 
TBH I think you would need to drive like a total idiot to roll one, its a 4 x 4 after all, but on the legal side these kits are sold as fit for purpose, on the stutmaster website there are even demonstrations so I would think any legal case would go directly back to the supplier. It is also definatly more stable than my Pajero ever was EAS or coils and that is a fact but the Pajero's electrics were bullet proof (the head was not but was easy to replace), sadly the Rangie's electrics are not but I still prefer it. (The Rangie that is)
Davie
 
Datatek said:
I wonder what the liability is if you sell on a P38 on coils and the buyer is injured or killed in a roll over accident? Could be nasty in these sue for anything times:eek:
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Don't know Keith. But all these it's still stable on coils bods need to get hold of an house brick. Lay it flat down and try to turn it over by pushing on one side. Then do the same with it led on edge, then try it stood on one end. Any guesses which configuration will tip easiest.:D:D:D
 
You've kind of lost me there wammers, the car still sits the same way up and on 4 wheels, anyway for what I need it for its ideal as it is and pulling the boat out of the harbour coils are just fine, funny though all the people I have met that have converted seem totaly happy. Back to the original post, try both and then make up your mind, you may even be surprised by your choice.
Davie
 
Davie F said:
TBH I think you would need to drive like a total idiot to roll one, its a 4 x 4 after all, but on the legal side these kits are sold as fit for purpose, on the stutmaster website there are even demonstrations so I would think any legal case would go directly back to the supplier. It is also definatly more stable than my Pajero ever was EAS or coils and that is a fact but the Pajero's electrics were bullet proof (the head was not but was easy to replace), sadly the Rangie's electrics are not but I still prefer it. (The Rangie that is)
Davie
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It's very easily done, especially at full height. That's why the EAS won't let you go over 35mph at off road height. I assume your driving skills are so good that you can anticipate everything that's going to happen in front of you on a trip such that you will never need to take evasive action?

All kinds of stupid things can be bought for a car. It doesn't mean that it's a good idea or even safe to fit them. I really wouldn't want to rely on the assumption that they are fit for purpose. Their get our clause would be that it's up to you to check whether they are legal and safe for road use and I think you can't easily establish or prove this, despite your researches.

Your evidence' would count for nothing in a court case if it was found that your modifications were a contributory factor in an accident (as it was for the accident discussed earlier).
 
Davie F said:
You've kind of lost me there wammers, the car still sits the same way up and on 4 wheels, anyway for what I need it for its ideal as it is and pulling the boat out of the harbour coils are just fine, funny though all the people I have met that have converted seem totaly happy. Back to the original post, try both and then make up your mind, you may even be surprised by your choice.
Davie
Click to expand...

It's about changing the centre of gravity of the brick it is much easier to tip when stood on one end than is is laid flat. Brick is still same weight just moving the C of G makes it less stable. Trying both is not the point as you well know. I am sure your vehicle feels fine driving along but the fact still remains that at any speed but more so above 50mph your car is more likely to tip than a P38 on air. As with the brick it takes much less sideways force to tip it than when the C of G is lower. Why do you think half the weight of a yacht is in the keel?
 
wammers said:
It's about changing the centre of gravity of the brick it is much easier to tip when stood on one end than is is laid flat. Brick is still same weight just moving the C of G makes it less stable. Trying both is not the point as you well know. I am sure your vehicle feels fine driving along but the fact still remains that at any speed but more so above 50mph your car is more likely to tip than a P38 on air. As with the brick it takes much less sideways force to tip it than when the C of G is lower. Why do you think half the weight of a yacht is in the keel?
Click to expand...

so it wont KEEL OVER!!!!. simples innit.:doh:;)
 
gemsdad said:
so it wont KEEL OVER!!!!. simples innit.:doh:;)
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You would have thought so, but some can't seem to grasp the principal of high C of G equals tip over easier. Next time Davie is out in his Mirror dinghy tying a bag of cement to the top of the mast may illustrate this principal better.:D:D:D
 
wammers said:
You would have thought so, but some can't seem to grasp the principal of high C of G equals tip over easier. Next time Davie is out in his Mirror dinghy tying a bag of cement to the top of the mast may illustrate this principal better.:D:D:D
Click to expand...

a bit like captain slow off top gear with his triumph herald,:eek::D:D
 
Ah I get it, but have been at sea for over half my working life so do understand about C of G but the ride hieght difference aint going to be that huge its unstable and I still prefer it to EAS, now the boat is 23 foot with a 200 hp optimax so there is no mast to tie on a bag of cement and it would just slow it down. For all your arguments I do feel that you just don't want to listen to any other views than your own which is fine but how do other mods stack up, Overfinch being one with a bloody great big engine that it was not designed for. No I will toddle along in mine and if I want to get from A to B quick I will take the Alfa. My dads last car was a C5 and it lowered at 50 mph, sure the main reason was aerodynamic for economy.
Davie
 
Davie F said:
Ah I get it, but have been at sea for over half my working life so do understand about C of G but the ride hieght difference aint going to be that huge its unstable and I still prefer it to EAS, now the boat is 23 foot with a 200 hp optimax so there is no mast to tie on a bag of cement and it would just slow it down. For all your arguments I do feel that you just don't want to listen to any other views than your own which is fine but how do other mods stack up, Overfinch being one with a bloody great big engine that it was not designed for. No I will toddle along in mine and if I want to get from A to B quick I will take the Alfa. My dads last car was a C5 and it lowered at 50 mph, sure the main reason was aerodynamic for economy.
Davie
Click to expand...

Fair does Davie mate you continue as you want. I have listened to your views and you are entitled to them, but no matter what you say the fact that raising the C of G of the P38 makes it easier to tip is indiputable. The fact that yours is more likely to tip than one sat down rounding a corner at the same speed is also indisputable. 200 Optimax eh, that would make a V8 Rangies fuel consumption look really good i'll bet.:):):)
 
Davie F said:
Ah I get it, but have been at sea for over half my working life so do understand about C of G but the ride hieght difference aint going to be that huge its unstable and I still prefer it to EAS, now the boat is 23 foot with a 200 hp optimax so there is no mast to tie on a bag of cement and it would just slow it down. For all your arguments I do feel that you just don't want to listen to any other views than your own which is fine but how do other mods stack up, Overfinch being one with a bloody great big engine that it was not designed for. No I will toddle along in mine and if I want to get from A to B quick I will take the Alfa. My dads last car was a C5 and it lowered at 50 mph, sure the main reason was aerodynamic for economy.
Davie
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200HP? What's the torque figure? If it's much over 300nm it will soon break the ZF4HP22 if you have an auto:eek:
 
Give a bloody Overfinch a scare, although for a 3 litre direct injection 2 stroke outboard its pretty good- 8gph at 25 knots (4100 rpm) and erm 16 gph at 35 knots (5500 rpm WOT), take it from me you dont do much wide open running and the weather up here usually does not allow it anyway, don't know the torque as can't find that figure in the Mercury handbook but would think it would be quite a lot. And no the boat does not have a rangies gearbox:amen:
 
Hi Mikescuba, I have owned all types of Land Rover 80", 86" Series 1's, S11a 109, S111 109, 110 V8 HT, plus driven 90's and now own a 1995 P38 DT with EAS.

I purchased the P38 just over 3 years ago and have covered over 40,000 miles so far, The only thing I've replaced (preventive maintenance) on the EAS are the 4 Air Springs, which were working ok, but the rubber showed signs of cracking, the air springs cost me 200.00 GBP including retaining clips. I also purchased a lead to adjust the EAS heights. Its never let me down (punt intended), personally having driven Land Rovers and Classic Ranges on coil suspension, I will stick with the comfort of the air springs.

Range Rover's are not sports cars if you want to corner fast by a bike or a Lotus.

A Range Rover = comfort and possibly the best towing vehicle driven on a car licence.
 
Many thanks, apprieciate the tip. I have seen on ebay a few where they say that it takes a few turns to start from cold but they do start. My Defender starts on the button from freezing cold ( -18) to hot. I was wandering if the BMW engines had a problem with cold starts?
 
mikescuba said:
Many thanks, apprieciate the tip. I have seen on ebay a few where they say that it takes a few turns to start from cold but they do start. My Defender starts on the button from freezing cold ( -18) to hot. I was wandering if the BMW engines had a problem with cold starts?
Click to expand...

I think it's more hot starting that they have problems with.
 
Hi ZZR1200. I presum you have a motor bike with that name. Apprieciate all the info. I think I shall go for a RR with EAS as I am looking for creature comforts so might as well go for the whole thing. I suppose if I do run into problems that I can't fix I could fit coils later. I kinow the RR is not a speed machine but living in the French countryside there are lots of bends along tight lanes and the French do cut corners forcing you to take evasive action so the lower the center of gravity the better. You don't need to be going that quick to suddenly run out of road. When I lived in the UK you might have a near miss maybe once every two years or so. Here its about every month.
Many Thanks to everyone for all you comments and help, they are greatly appriciated.
 
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