Hi all,
Please can anyone provide details of the differences between the post 2001 handbrake / rear drum / brake system compared to pre 2001 ?
I am having lots of issues with the handbrake efficiency on my 1998 L series. It has been checked by a landy dealer who thought the adjusters were the culprit. to no avail - drums seem ok, pads seem ok etc.. We are talking STEEP hills to and from our farm - it can hold (just!) if you are a real gorilla - unfortunately my bride is not. It is really bad. - I am no weakling and I struggle.
I notice that they altered the adjuster mechanism in >2001 units ? - is this any better ? - and, to convert to these units - is it a complete drum / backplate / adjusters and cable change ? (in other words - can the brake drum / backplate assembly be easily swapped over as I can get the later ones cheap enough - and of course - is it worth it in making the handbrake better )


Many thanks all.
Joe

Gonna be doing the drum swap on mine soon, from what i can gather is its pretty straight forward. However the drum is bigger so may foul on the inside of your wheels. <2001 drums only have a mm or two clearance behind the alloy, however for the larger drums they also changed the alloys. Luckily i'm rolling with 40mm spacers so i have loads of room

Hey Krisboats, nice one, thanks for the reply !.
I didnt realise the drum was bigger... that may be very helpful.. from what you understand - are the cables different as well ?
I love the car - but it is undrivable for me missus as it is due to the cr&p hand brake on STEEEEEEEP hills.

Out of interest mate, why are you swapping ?

I will check the size of my alloys, but I think they are 15".. could a small spacer be used perhaps ????

edit - just looked - there seems to be stacks of room 'tween drum and alloy - however, the spokes curve in a tad - I am sure even a 5 or 10 mm space would clear. As far as distance from the rim - about 30 mm all around (thats the old ones)
Joe

Hmmmm. I just looked at the specs for the >2001 model, and apart from the auto adjuster and backplate etc, the drums are exactly the same diameter as the <2001 model. They are not larger (as far as I can ascertain) . unless of course you are aware of another model that will fit ????
Joe

I would look at this problem differently - rather than attempting to 'upgrade' to a later type. Your pre-01 mechanism should hold you on any hill.

1. Cables stretched? Adjust the shoes for a slight drag, then tighten the cable adjuster so the handbrake is fully engaged at the 3rd click. If you can't get it this tight, replace the cables.

2. Hardware worn? If above doesn't work, this may be next stage, along with...

3. Shoe linings worn/loose/contaminated? Inspect thoroughly, but these are cheap so just replace if unsure.

4. Drums shiny/out of spec? Worth a good scuff with coarse sandpaper, especially if shoes replaced. Measure the internal diameter. These are cheap too (at least, Britpart ones are. Can't vouch for quality though).

Drum and handbrake hardware is cheap to replace, and very important for safety, especially where you live. My final tip would be to leave the car in gear or park for extra peace of mind.

Brake drums are different design between pre 01MY and post 01MY with a larger braking surface on the later setup.

Also the wheels changed to accommodate the new larger brakes

As post above - the existing setup should work so you need to fix that!

Hi mate, from measurements on the sales sites, they are the same ?
I know the adjuster is different . but - I cannot see how the brakes are different - all 254 mm. ?

Joe_H said:

Hi mate, from measurements on the sales sites, they are the same ?
I know the adjuster is different . but - I cannot see how the brakes are different - all 254 mm. ?

Click to expand...

Joe_H - You could spend a lot of time and money changing the brakes to a later version, including shoes, hardware, drums AND WHEELS, unless you want to fit spacers. If, for example, your cables are stretched, which is very likely, you will still have the same problem and will have wasted that time and money. Get the basics sorted - your LR dealer is not serving you well here. A car with an inadequate handbrake is dangerous and they should not let it out of the shop until the problem is sorted.

For the record, the 254mm is the diameter of the drum. The difference will probably be in the axial width and/or the shoe length.

if it is a 2001 model then your drums are about due for replacement and replace the shoes and cables as well put it all together and then there is a small rubber bung in the back plate remove it and adjust them until they lock the drum then back them off one or two clicks then check your hand brake cables are correctly adjusted you should have 5 or 6 clicks before it stops then all should be well the earlier freelanders had smaller drums. hope this helps

It is the front discs and calipers that were changed and cause clearance problems on pre 2001 wheels!!

Rear drums changed at the same time as the front brakes did

The later brake drums are squarer then the early versions

There is a thread on here about rear wheel studs snapping if you fit early alloys to later cars because the rear drums are different.
This difference in front and rear brakes has been known about for over 15 years.

Hi guys,
this is confusing. .... ok, so the brake drums are exactly the same size and width (according to datasheets) - the only REAL difference appears to be the self adjustment mechanism. Post 2001, the front brakes were enlarged - this caused problems with the original wheels - re the rear drums - there seems to be a variation of opinion as to the viability of fitting them - or indeed - the necessity of fitting them - as they are in effect - the same INTERNAL size.

I fully agree with the poster who says change the shoes - this seems to be the fly in the ointment - Land Rover dealers are NOT known for saying 'everything checks out fine' lol... if they found any issue with cables stretch (none noted - or drum wear - none noted) then they would surely want to rob me of all my hard earned cash.....
They tell me the self adjusters are fine... they have tested the handbrake on a 20 degree slope - ok ... well, my outlet road is about (realistically) 25 - 30 degrees - to a T junction where the HB is a necessity prior to pulling out and simply is impossible to use in a normal manor.

The only common denominator here appears to be the brake shoes. I will fit a new set and see what happens. I am sure the 'stealer' did not test on an appropriate incline.!
It is actually going back to them on the 24th of this month - no solution - no pay !.... (which is fine by me!)

The brake shoes are of an unknown make or quality - so need to be changed.
Out of interest, I am a brit in Portugal - the LR dealer (MAIN) is in Penafiel just north of Oporto and known for quality service.
If they cannot 'solve' the issue - I will - as a last ditch effort - change the whole 'effing lot - cables - drums - shoes - adjusters. as quite simply - without a hb that can hold - normally - at the hill at the top of our road, the freelander is totally unusable for my wife. So far, I have never , ever, found a vehicle with such a poor HB.
From what you guys say, I am hopeful a solution will indeed be found - that is at least promising.
Tomorrow, we are going to buy another car for my wife to drive due to this issue, it simply is not possible to live with it.

Anyway, will report back - at least I do not now believe the rear brakes from the > 2001 models are of any real difference in performance or size ! - simply a better quality adjustment mechanism - which - the original can mimic if working correctly.
Cheers all
Joe

Rear brakes pre and post 2001MY are different.
https://www.famousfour.co.uk/new_parts/partslist?veh=freelander&sec=brks&sub_sec=drums
https://www.famousfour.co.uk/new_parts/partslist?veh=freelander&sec=brks&sub_sec=shoesprings
https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-rover/freelander-td4-2003-snapping-wheel-studs.46107/

The hand brake adjuster is not in the rear brake mechanism, it is under the cubby box.
Slacken the hand brake adjuster right off, then adjust the shoes up correctly through the hole in the backplate.
Then set the handbrake cable adjustment.

longdog said:

The hand brake adjuster is not in the rear brake mechanism, it is under the cubby box.
Slacken the hand brake adjuster right off, then adjust the shoes up correctly through the hole in the backplate.
Then set the handbrake cable adjustment.

Click to expand...

Longdog, I think the OP suspects the self-adjusters are reducing the efficiency of the handbrake. I can't see this, as these mechanisms really do very little other than occasionally click the shoes a little nearer the drum to compensate for wear.

OP, can you clear this up? Are your brakes adjusted to a slight drag, and the handbrake lever to 3-4 clicks to full engagement? It can be difficult on a steep hill if your handbrake has to be lifted nearly vertical to get purchase. Mine is adjusted to lock the wheels on the 3rd click, and if you really heave on it you can get it to 5th click.

As far as I know, you start to lose some mechanical advantage the higher you have to lift the handbrake lever.

Hello all and many many thanks for the responses. I am sorry for the late reply here. Let me update you more on this 'odyssey' via so called experts.

Ok, so - first an indy FL specialist looked at the issue during a routine service. He declared everything was fine - don't get me wrong, he is a great guy and never replaces anything he does not genuinely believe needs to be replaced. During the last major service, we replaced front disks and pads. The rear - were deemed 'fine'. Ok - so - a few weeks go by. The hand brake is 'errr, well - not good - in fact - it will not hold on our steep hill on the road out of the farm.


I now have more information. That being, he actually DID find the rear wheel cylinders leaking slightly inside the covers (which - according to 'rave' is ok if small. however, he decided to replace the cylinders, no worries, they are cheap as chips.
Ok... so I was not aware of the cylinder replacements as there were many other things replaced and the cost here was minor.

Let us flash forward.

On to land rover dealer (local) - later to find NOT MAIN DEALER - but a 'multi marque' dealer. -
Anyway - first visit - they check - they say all is fine - they don't charge - I leave.. I get home, test on the 'hill' - same old same old - cr&p hand brake.. SIGH !:-(
Handbrake still not holding on STEEP hills. - so back it goes.....
THIS time, they actually inspect - they said they did first time - however - this time, they must have actually 'looked' - I guess first time they tried the HB on a small slope and declared it ok.... ho hum//////

NOW - they decide to quote me nearly 500 EURO for a 'repair' - they say the following.
The cylinders fitted are not genuine land rover - well - err ok - tough...
They 'say' the cylinders are slightly narrower than the genuine -err - ok....
They 'say' the auto adjusters are at the absolute maximum, the brake shoes - however - are in great condition.. their conclusion is that the fault is in the 'after-market' cylinders. They quote for new 'genuine' cylinders, brake shoes as a matter of course, and 'skimming' of the existing drums.. (the drums are 250 EURO EACH here.) - NOTE - they DID NOT recommend changing the existing drums ! - simply skimming them - which MUST make matters far worse imho)

Ok, time to sit and think.... (and PLEASE - PLEASE correct me if you disagree ???)

In my mind - logical deduction - first off, a slight difference in 'width' of the rear cylinders - providing not drastic - will not cause this problem . The adjuster will compensate for this - it has a minimum and maximum setting.
Now, it IS true the adjusters were at MAX and could go no more (This certainly could affect the efficiency of the hand brake !.)

HOWEVER, WHY did the adjusters reach maximum... I cannot see how a slightly narrower cylinder can cause this. I CAN see that severely worn shoes COULD cause this - but they were not worn much.- so not shoes.

My conclusion - I think they are all talking ballcocks. - especially wanting to 'skim the drums ! yikes !!!!!!!!. - I cannot really believe that was advice from anyone with an IQ above single digits.
The obvious thing is that the drums are worn beyond their limit. (255.5) - BUT is appears none of these so called experts have bothered to measure that or - deduce how the issue could happen !!!. - the FL has done 130 K miles.. it has probably had the drums 'skimmed' before - they seem to do that here in Portugal........

To me, this was the ONLY explanation that would fit the scenario with hardly worn pads scenario - and adjusters being at max !

MY solution, is - (to me at least) NEW brake drums. !

Rimmers UK - 17 quid each inc vat., (Aftermarket)

Got them delivered, and NOW fitted - (I DID order new shoes at the same time (OEM)..)

NOW, low and behold - hand brake is working properly....

there is a moral here - I am unsure as how to phrase it - but it goes something like - there seems to be a lack of 'sense' in the so called 'experts' - I can only talk here in Portugal !!!!.

Surely - there is absolutely NO WAY the adjusters could be at max with hardly worn shoes ? - (UNLESS the DRUM was worn beyond tolerance. ) - Cylinders would expand to the LOWER limit (fixed mechanically) or the adjuster - then also 'expand' to the theoretical 'upper' limit. - providing the piston(s) travel in the cylinders can compensate, there is no way (imho) that the adjusters (being fixed min and max) could be at fault unless they were not mechanically sound (which they are!)

Anyway- ALL is fine now - the 'new' cheapo - aftermarket drums 'cured' the problem - still with the same' non genuine' - narrow' cylinders!

WHY THE F&^K didn't ANY of these guys measure the drum - or at least logically deduce it was the ONLY potential issue... aghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Anyway again.... from earlier discussion, re pre 2001 / post 2001 - the rimmer after-market drum is EXACTLY the same part.!

SO, problem now solved.. it is rather frustrating that the customer has to TELL / ADVISE (and slightly 'discuss / ARGUE' with the bloody garage / dealer WHAT the problem is !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! until they finally admit that - ooooooooooops - they were wrong..

at least they did not charge for fitting.. (They were too embarrassed me thinks !)

Frustrated in 'Portugal'



But happy all is good. FINALLY - with no help from the so called experts who looked at it...

I will go and bang my head against a wall - or, preferably - theirs !

Hmm, lots to say here. I'm not sure the wheel cylinders would affect the handbrake performance at all, but stand to be corrected.

Offering to skim the drums without measuring is a little suspect, if that is what you are saying.

If your adjusters were maxed out, then indeed the handbrake would not work right. Only real possibilities here are: faulty/misaligned adjuster, worn shoes or worn drum. Any mechanic, let alone a LR independent, should be able to find the fault.

I refer you to my previous post: 'Your LR dealer is not serving you well here'. Glad you got it sorted.

Alot of handbrake faults can be put down to a build up of brake dust.......from a wheel locking up to a non functioning handbrake. I've had this before and a quick blast from the compressor all was fixed.

TBH It doesn't matter what the contributing factors to the problem were - the low cost option of new drums obviously fixed it. Being aftermarket, they may wear faster than genuine, but then they may outlast the car anyway. Just be careful that all the parts are in good condition - down to the retaining pins (which appear to be the most important part of the whole rear brake setup).

This to me is typical for garages. They only need to know a little more than everyone else to be 'experts' - but in actual fact they are just gambling with their customers' cash and often taking decisions that will result in more "labour" time (or services they can add a 100%+ mark up on) than "parts".