In article <iifid09sr0ft48fa56da4640g7rm37rk9o@4ax.com>, Austin
Shackles says...

> >Not due to the cost of the transport...
>
> yebbut, eventually, if the fuel price continues to rise, the transport rates
> will rise, and so will the prices, unless some form of subsidy keeps 'em
> down.

ROFLMAO..perhaps you ought to tell the owner drivers in the forums on
Trucknet UK that they have the ability to dictate their rates.


--
Conor

Dumb as a box of rocks...

Conor wrote:

> In article <iifid09sr0ft48fa56da4640g7rm37rk9o@4ax.com>, Austin
> Shackles says...
>
>> >Not due to the cost of the transport...
>>
>> yebbut, eventually, if the fuel price continues to rise, the transport
>> rates will rise, and so will the prices, unless some form of subsidy
>> keeps 'em down.
>
> ROFLMAO..perhaps you ought to tell the owner drivers in the forums on
> Trucknet UK that they have the ability to dictate their rates.
>
>

Sure they do. The ones who can't will go out of business and the ones who
don't go out of business will have been able to keep their costs below
their incomes and as such will have had to have been able to dictate the
rates.

It works on the macro scale. Not true for individual truckers, but true for
the industry.

P.

On 22 Jun 2004 Austin Shackles <austin@ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:

> Chris Morriss <crsm@oroboros.demon.co.uk> enlightened us thusly:

> >But if taxes are indirect, I can at least chose what to buy, and
> >therefore what to pay tax on.
>
> what, like fuel to go shopping, books, doubtless food before long...
>
> right...

There's no justification for zero-rating books, newspapers and
periodicals. The "tax on learning" argument just doesn't stand up
because there's normal rate VAT on just about every other medium of
knowledge acquisition. Zero-rating porn mags, Jeffrey Archer novels and
news-free tabloids is rediculous, but I suppose you have to keep
Mr. Murdoch sweet :-(

--
Richard Porter
Mail to username ricp at domain minijem.plus.com
"You can't have Windows without pains."

On or around Wed, 23 Jun 2004 12:41:11 +0100, Conor
<conor_turton@hotmail.com> enlightened us thusly:

>ROFLMAO..perhaps you ought to tell the owner drivers in the forums on
>Trucknet UK that they have the ability to dictate their rates.

what were transport rates 20 years ago, and what are they now? 30 years
ago?

mind, the transport industry *could* dictate rates if it got together and
presented a united front...

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
Beyond the horizon of the place we lived when we were young / In a world
of magnets and miracles / Our thoughts strayed constantly and without
boundary / The ringing of the Division bell had begun. Pink Floyd (1994)

This whole thing is a big scam by our goverment !!, why do you think that in
every pound of fuel we pay for 70p is tax !!!

it's all well everyone on here punning idea's but you are not happy about it
either, best to encourage idea's to lower the fuel...., this post will only
effect the garages run by bp and esso if this happens it will put the
garages out of buisness and mean less profit's for the two companies.., yes
you are right in that the two companies supply the fuel to all of the other
garages but if that little bit extra is done to hurt the backbone then it's
good i guess..

we need to shout out and be heard about this now as in the papers yesterday
there was a page with how much fuel is due to go up and could be as much as
£1.20 a litre !!!!!!!, yet usa has only 50cents a litre, gibralta only has
it's fuel set at 49p per litre, spain at 50p per litre...., so how come we
are paying way over the odds !!! i tell you GREEDY GOVERMENT !!!

make a stand any way possible, and for all of those who are disaprooving any
idea well you must be hapy with paying the high prices... more fool you..



================================================
"Austin Shackles" <austin@ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:0pnlb05v9mmfa03j5jqf9mganbknqnntl4@4ax.com...
> On or around Mon, 31 May 2004 06:40:59 +0100, "Mjolinor"
> <mjolinor@hotmail.com> enlightened us thusly:
>
> >
> >"Austin Shackles" <austin@ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
> >news:gigkb05q9f1vil6mgmnv3s2ofd87ce217o@4ax.com...
> >> On or around Sun, 30 May 2004 17:21:07 +0100, "Mjolinor"
> >> <mjolinor@hotmail.com> enlightened us thusly:
> >>
> >> >:
> >> >> > It's easy to make this happen. Just forward this email, and buy
your
> >> >> petrol
> >> >> > at Shell, Tesco, Sainsburys, Morrisons (75p) Jet etc. i.e. boycott
BP
> >> >and
> >> >> > Esso."
> >> >
> >> >And who do you think make the petrol for Tesco, Asda, Sainsburys and
> >> >Morrisons?
> >>
> >> quite. but they sell at a lower profit or even zero profit to attract
> >> custom.
> >
> >Tesco, Asda, Sainsburys and Morrisons do but BP and the like make the
profit
> >just the same which is why the plan won't work.
>
> well, aye. and besides, the supermarkets do a deal with BP et al to buy
at
> prices that ordinary franchise garages can't compete with. Not that I
> approve, entirely...
>
> --
> Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
> In Touch: Get in touch with yourself by touching yourself.
> If somebody is watching, stop touching yourself.
> from the Little Book of Complete B***ocks by Alistair Beaton.

moo'er wrote:

>This whole thing is a big scam by our goverment !!, why do you think that in
>every pound of fuel we pay for 70p is tax !!!
>
>it's all well everyone on here punning idea's but you are not happy about it
>either, best to encourage idea's to lower the fuel...., this post will only
>effect the garages run by bp and esso if this happens it will put the
>garages out of buisness and mean less profit's for the two companies.., yes
>you are right in that the two companies supply the fuel to all of the other
>garages but if that little bit extra is done to hurt the backbone then it's
>good i guess..
>
>we need to shout out and be heard about this now as in the papers yesterday
>there was a page with how much fuel is due to go up and could be as much as
>£1.20 a litre !!!!!!!, yet usa has only 50cents a litre, gibralta only has
>it's fuel set at 49p per litre, spain at 50p per litre...., so how come we
>are paying way over the odds !!! i tell you GREEDY GOVERMENT !!!
>
>make a stand any way possible, and for all of those who are disaprooving any
>idea well you must be hapy with paying the high prices... more fool you..


You seem to be a little confused. You blame the government, yet
suggest hitting the oil companies.

Currently, road fuel duty stands at around 47.1 pence per litre on
petrol, regardless of how much that litre costs at the pump.

On top of that is VAT at 17.5% on the pump price (just under 15% of
the price you pay).

This means that on a litre costing 80p, the guv'ment is taking about
59p. For every penny that the pump price rises, the extra revenue in
tax amounts to the VAT fraction of that penny = less than 0.15 pence.
If the cost of a litre goes up to 120 pence, the duty rate will stay
the same, but there will be some extra revenue from VAT; in this case
the total going to the Exchequer would be a little under 65p

In September the duty rate on a litre goes up by 1.42 pence per litre
of sulpher-free stuff (a bit more on stuff with sulpher in it). With
VAT on it, this will cause petrol to rise by about 1.67 pence per
litre. If petrol prices rise at the pump by about 11 pence per litre
before the September duty rise, then the government will get the same
revenue from VAT alone without the need to apply the duty rise.

Now, if you think there is too much tax on fuel, the oil companies
will agree with you, so hitting them in any way won't help anything
(assuming your proposals will affect them at all).

If you think that recent petrol rises are the fault of the guv'ment,
well you may be right, but not necessarily in the way that you think.
Overall, we have little direct say in the cost of a barrel of oil.

If you think that lowering tax on fuel will make us all better off,
many economists will disagree, because the Chancellor has revenue and
spending targets - you will just move the tax to a different place.
Lowering the tax on fuel will do nothing to prevent rises due to
problems in Saudi.

If you think you are spending too much for fuel for your personal
transport, campaign for a régime change by all means, but it may be
more than just our government you need to overthrow. Meantime, here
are some alternative suggestions that many people find beneficial:

Walk more
Use a bicycle
Use a more economical car
Alter you driving style
Convert to an alternative fuel
--

Stewart Hargrave


For email, replace 'SpamOnlyToHere' with my name

In article <00dd97c34c.news@user.argonet.co.uk>, Richard Porter
<URL:mailto:dontusethis@address.uk.invalid> wrote:

> Zero-rating porn mags, Jeffrey Archer novels and
> news-free tabloids is rediculous,


Did you mean blueiculus?

--
AJL Electronics (G6FGO) Ltd : Satellite and TV aerial systems
http://www.classicmicrocars.co.uk : http://www.ajlelectronics.co.uk

In message <l1qjd0tvjgd3anfjed7uqiepegvu1negsj@4ax.com>, Austin Shackles
<austin@ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk> writes
>On or around Wed, 23 Jun 2004 12:41:11 +0100, Conor
><conor_turton@hotmail.com> enlightened us thusly:
>
>>ROFLMAO..perhaps you ought to tell the owner drivers in the forums on
>>Trucknet UK that they have the ability to dictate their rates.
>
>what were transport rates 20 years ago, and what are they now? 30 years
>ago?
>
>mind, the transport industry *could* dictate rates if it got together and
>presented a united front...
>
Price fixing is illegal.
--
hugh
Reply to address is valid at the time of posting

On or around Sat, 26 Jun 2004 17:22:34 +0100, hugh <hugh@[127.0.0.1]>
enlightened us thusly:

>In message <l1qjd0tvjgd3anfjed7uqiepegvu1negsj@4ax.com>, Austin Shackles
><austin@ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk> writes
>>On or around Wed, 23 Jun 2004 12:41:11 +0100, Conor
>><conor_turton@hotmail.com> enlightened us thusly:
>>
>>>ROFLMAO..perhaps you ought to tell the owner drivers in the forums on
>>>Trucknet UK that they have the ability to dictate their rates.
>>
>>what were transport rates 20 years ago, and what are they now? 30 years
>>ago?
>>
>>mind, the transport industry *could* dictate rates if it got together and
>>presented a united front...
>>
>Price fixing is illegal.

where does price fixing end and pricing a job to give a genuine profit start
though?

and besides, while price fixing may be illegal (why?) undercutting sadly
isn't.

but what I had in mind was an honest assessment of the costs of running a
transport operation, including all costs such as vehicle maintenance,
vehicle replacement, training drivers and mechanics, decent wages fro
drivers, etc etc. and then setting rates based on these and which give a
reasonable profit.

I bet most rates wouldn't cover all that at present
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
Appearances: You don't really need make-up. Celebrate your authentic
face by frightening people in the street.
from the Little Book of Complete B***ocks by Alistair Beaton.

You're in the gas business and make a statement like that
ROFLOL LPGA rules KO

Robin


"hugh" <hugh@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in message
news:OjNylkEKLa3AFAx$@raefell.demon.co.uk...
> In message <l1qjd0tvjgd3anfjed7uqiepegvu1negsj@4ax.com>, Austin Shackles
> <austin@ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk> writes
> >On or around Wed, 23 Jun 2004 12:41:11 +0100, Conor
> ><conor_turton@hotmail.com> enlightened us thusly:
> >
> >>ROFLMAO..perhaps you ought to tell the owner drivers in the forums on
> >>Trucknet UK that they have the ability to dictate their rates.
> >
> >what were transport rates 20 years ago, and what are they now? 30 years
> >ago?
> >
> >mind, the transport industry *could* dictate rates if it got together and
> >presented a united front...
> >
> Price fixing is illegal.
> --
> hugh
> Reply to address is valid at the time of posting

stop all this blather about petrol prices - 2 reasons

1 - our countries'tax take is 40% vs around 50% in mainland europe so in
fact our TOTAL tax is less -think of our lower levels of VAT, NI,
corportion tax, paye etcand if it was not for our prevarication with the
euro lots of companies would move here (or at least their head offices) from
europe because of our lower taxes


(if you really want cigs/booze/petrol at euro levels then we shall certainly
have a 40% starting level for PAYE as in some other countries or vat at 25%
or more - skools/hospitals/roads etc etc have to be funded somehow in a
civilised country)

2- high petrol costs will make the roads clearer for the rest of us if the

"Conor" <conor_turton@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1b26e8b95af2df4f98a838@news.claranews.com...
> In article <cZmuc.49$cs4.9@newsfe4-gui>, nigeandangieoops@tesco.net
> says...
>
> > Action:
> > It's easy to make this happen. Just forward this email, and buy your
petrol
> > at Shell, Tesco, Sainsburys, Morrisons (75p) Jet etc. i.e. boycott BP
and
> > Esso."
> >
> > Kind regards.
> >
> Yeah right...
>
> Buy your petrol from those listed above fed from the same refinieries
> as those you're going to blacklist.
>
> Give you a clue dumbass...
>
> They all come from the same refineries.
>
>
> --
> Conor
>
> I started with nothing and I still have most of it left.

On or around Sun, 6 Jun 2004 15:09:46 +0100, "maxwell" <x@y.co.uk>
enlightened us thusly:

>(if you really want cigs/booze/petrol at euro levels then we shall certainly
>have a 40% starting level for PAYE as in some other countries or vat at 25%
>or more - skools/hospitals/roads etc etc have to be funded somehow in a
>civilised country)

mind, I'm not in favour of cutting income tax to silly low levels at the
expense of taxing food, books, etc. higher, which is the way "they" seem to
be going.

high purchase taxes etc. but an unfair burden on those who do the crappiest,
low-paid jobs. Obviously, you have to have a balance, but the very high tax
rates for high-income brackets have long since disappeared.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
Too Busy: Your mind is like a motorway. Sometimes it can be jammed by
too much traffic. Avoid the jams by never using your mind on a
Bank Holiday weekend.
from the Little Book of Complete B***ocks by Alistair Beaton.

because we have such a low level of direct taxes in the\UK is the reason we
have more disposable income which inturn means that large companies think
its OK to charge us more for goods that are cheaper in mainland europe (rip
off UK)

In other words the cash goes to the Government (on the minland) or big
companies mqke progit from us poor sods in the UK- slagging off tony/taxes/
petrol prices etc etc is nt that simple is it?

On or around Wed, 9 Jun 2004 18:12:52 +0100, "maxwell" <x@y.co.uk>
enlightened us thusly:

>
>because we have such a low level of direct taxes in the\UK is the reason we
>have more disposable income which inturn means that large companies think
>its OK to charge us more for goods that are cheaper in mainland europe (rip
>off UK)
>
>In other words the cash goes to the Government (on the minland) or big
>companies mqke progit from us poor sods in the UK- slagging off tony/taxes/
>petrol prices etc etc is nt that simple is it?
>

not convinced that the overall tax burden is that much different though.
and ultra-high fuel tax isn't all that fair, really, nor does it serve in
any meaningful way to reduce road congestion.

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
"For millions of years, mankind lived just like the animals. Then
something happened which unleashed the power of our imagination -
we learned to talk." Pink Floyd (1994)

Stewart Hargrave<SpamOnlyToHere@MiserableOldGit.Me.uk> wrote in
news:4bjrb0poa3pe436ctqg745e7ukheg552dr@4ax.com:

> You seem to be a little confused. You blame the government, yet
> suggest hitting the oil companies.

But the oil companies are hardly innocent bystanders. Almost all of them
have questionable human right records, and the two in question here, BP
and Exxon/Esso, are amongst the worlds biggest polluters. Exxon leverage
their relationaship with the US government to lobby for reductions in
climate change controls and emission controls, and the right to plunder
Alaskan national parks.

> Now, if you think there is too much tax on fuel, the oil companies
> will agree with you, so hitting them in any way won't help anything
> (assuming your proposals will affect them at all).

> If you think that recent petrol rises are the fault of the guv'ment,
> well you may be right, but not necessarily in the way that you think.
> Overall, we have little direct say in the cost of a barrel of oil.

The "free market" controls the cost of oil. But while America continues
to use oil profligately, they will continue to drive demand that
increases prices. Conversely, the British government could act to put in
place more sustainable energy projects, and reduce our own demand for
oil, and we could also leverage our special relationship with the USA
(the one that requires us to do whatever the hell Dubya tells Tony to) to
drive policy change in the US.

> If you think that lowering tax on fuel will make us all better off,
> many economists will disagree, because the Chancellor has revenue and
> spending targets - you will just move the tax to a different place.
> Lowering the tax on fuel will do nothing to prevent rises due to
> problems in Saudi.

But part of the reason that there is more tax on fuel (and on other
things) is that successive governments have rolled over to the demands of
international business in a way that places the brunt of the tax burden
on working stiff, and reducess the total contribution made by corporate
entities. SO basically the big shareholders are getting richer while the
working and middle classes face a greater tax burden.

> If you think you are spending too much for fuel for your personal
> transport, campaign for a régime change by all means, but it may be
> more than just our government you need to overthrow.

But don't let that stop you. After you succeed in bringing about the
downfall of our government, please feel free to direct your attention to
the man who claims to be the President of the United States of America
next.

> Meantime, here
> are some alternative suggestions that many people find beneficial:
>
> Walk more
> Use a bicycle
> Use a more economical car
> Alter you driving style
> Convert to an alternative fuel

Agreed!

"maxwell" <x@y.co.uk> wrote in message news:<1086530967.26496.0@eunomia.uk.clara.net>...
> stop all this blather about petrol prices - 2 reasons
>
> 1 - our countries'tax take is 40% vs around 50% in mainland europe so in
> fact our TOTAL tax is less -think of our lower levels of VAT, NI,
> corportion tax, paye etcand if it was not for our prevarication with the
> euro lots of companies would move here (or at least their head offices) from
> europe because of our lower taxes

Thats a nice sweeping statement - some European countries also have
much lower taxes too.

Sure. I for one would prefer to pay all my taxes up front in PAYE.
That way I could see exactly what tax I'm paying. The problem is that
governments like to introduce more and more stealth taxes - they need
to tax to improve services, but they don't have the spine to come
clean and be honest.


> (if you really want cigs/booze/petrol at euro levels then we shall certainly
> have a 40% starting level for PAYE as in some other countries or vat at 25%
> or more - skools/hospitals/roads etc etc have to be funded somehow in a
> civilised country)

It would be nice, if the road tax and petrol tax were actually spent
on transport (note I didn't just say roads - even if they do provide
the best return on investment).

>
> 2- high petrol costs will make the roads clearer for the rest of us if the

I agree, we should tax the poor from using OUR roads..... (puts
tongue back in cheek).

Marcus 'Dr' Dee wrote:


>The "free market" controls the cost of oil. But while America continues
>to use oil profligately, they will continue to drive demand that
>increases prices.

I gather that the suddenly burgeoning middle classes in China, Russia,
et al, are now having a signficant effect on the oil supply and demand
equation. But the oil producers also have a role here. Now that most
of the 'developed' (and a good deal of the rest) world is utterly
dependent upon oil, the people who control the oil wells have all the
aces (well actually they stand to be trumped by military invasion by a
world super-power, but this, it seems, is not a straightforward
proceedure). We are beholden to them. Oil can be worth more by keeping
it in the ground than by extracting it - that's some leverage.

> Conversely, the British government could act to put in
>place more sustainable energy projects, and reduce our own demand for
>oil,

Yes, but also work to stem our growing appetite for all forms of
energy, too.

>and we could also leverage our special relationship with the USA

There's a problem here...

>(the one that requires us to do whatever the hell Dubya tells Tony to)

That's the one.

>to
>drive policy change in the US.


>After you succeed in bringing about the
>downfall of our government, please feel free to direct your attention to
>the man who claims to be the President of the United States of America
>next.

You first. I'm right behind you all the way.
--

Stewart Hargrave


For email, replace 'SpamOnlyToHere' with my name

You may disagree with the level of tax in the UK - thats fine - you may
want US level of taxes - but we are talking of a civilised society / may
your god help you If you or your family have serious health
issues/unemplyment

You really cannot disagree with the statement re: total tax take - it is
fact - OK it may have gone up to around 42% - the\rest of western europe is
between 47% and 53% - so if we are sticking to percentages (approx) 50 vs 40
(total tax take) from your 100squid is still 25% more than we pay in this
country

i always thought Tony Blair was following maggie in wanting us to be the
swetshop of europe - low taxws/low level of sevices - the rich get richer
and the poor die young nd stupid

"maxwell" <x@y.co.uk> wrote in message news:<1087147560.26480.0@ersa.uk.clara.net>...
> You may disagree with the level of tax in the UK - thats fine - you may
> want US level of taxes - but we are talking of a civilised society / may
> your god help you If you or your family have serious health
> issues/unemplyment
>
> You really cannot disagree with the statement re: total tax take - it is
> fact - OK it may have gone up to around 42% - the\rest of western europe is
> between 47% and 53% - so if we are sticking to percentages (approx) 50 vs 40
> (total tax take) from your 100squid is still 25% more than we pay in this
> country

I'm sure my tax bill is greater than 42%! If you include Nat Ins as
tax (which I most certainly do), then I pay ~35% direct from salary,
then ~50% from my higher rated earnings. This does not include all
the other post PAYE taxes that I pay whenever I fill my car with
petrol, buy things from shops, drink beer etc. I paid enough PAYE tax
last year to pay a policemans salary (including the tax that *HE*
would pay)!

My complaint is that I cannot calculate exactly how much tax I pay
each year. Just tax me 50% (or whatever) from my earnings and remove
all the stealth taxes. I have no complaint about paying for adequate
services throught tax - I just object to the lack of transparency.

"maxwell" <x@y.co.uk> wrote in message news:<1087147560.26480.0@ersa.uk.clara.net>...
> You may disagree with the level of tax in the UK - thats fine - you may
> want US level of taxes - but we are talking of a civilised society / may
> your god help you If you or your family have serious health
> issues/unemplyment
>
> You really cannot disagree with the statement re: total tax take - it is
> fact - OK it may have gone up to around 42% - the\rest of western europe is
> between 47% and 53% - so if we are sticking to percentages (approx) 50 vs 40
> (total tax take) from your 100squid is still 25% more than we pay in this
> country

I'm sure my tax bill is greater than 42%! If you include Nat Ins as
tax (which I most certainly do), then I pay ~35% direct from salary,
then ~50% from my higher rated earnings. This does not include all
the other post PAYE taxes that I pay whenever I fill my car with
petrol, buy things from shops, drink beer etc. I paid enough PAYE tax
last year to pay a policemans salary (including the tax that *HE*
would pay)!

My complaint is that I cannot calculate exactly how much tax I pay
each year. Just tax me 50% (or whatever) from my earnings and remove
all the stealth taxes. I have no complaint about paying for adequate
services throught tax - I just object to the lack of transparency.