Wammers just need to pick your moosif brain

I removed my air con condensor and fans maybe I should of mentiond this earlyer but I didn't think it had any connection with my troubles I must admit my symptoms did start after removal of said items, but I didn't make any kind of connection as I thought it was just coincidence.

I wondering how sensitive is the ecu temp gauge could it be that my car is over cooling now , although my temp guage is still smack bang in the middle .
Could it be that in some way misreadings could be the answer to my problems or am I just off the ball here ?
 
Grit Valve said:
Wammers just need to pick your moosif brain

I removed my air con condensor and fans maybe I should of mentiond this earlyer but I didn't think it had any connection with my troubles I must admit my symptoms did start after removal of said items, but I didn't make any kind of connection as I thought it was just coincidence.

I wondering how sensitive is the ecu temp gauge could it be that my car is over cooling now , although my temp guage is still smack bang in the middle .
Could it be that in some way misreadings could be the answer to my problems or am I just off the ball here ?
Click to expand...
If the gauge is showing normal temperature then it's not over cooling. The viscous fan and stat between them should maintain correct engine temperature.
 
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Datatek said:
If the gauge is showing normal temperature then it's not over cooling. The viscous fan and stat between them should maintaoin correct engine temperature.
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I kind of thought it was a stupid question but I had to ask yea when you think about it it has too deal with varied temperatures as it warms up . And traffic ques ect .
It's just so strange it can be fine for 3 days on the trot then one day it will do it a couple of times then nothing at all fine again but always s when hot that is the pattern it has to of been on a good long run short journeys have no effect even tho the car has reached its temp .
Thanks any way just trying all angles .
 
The ECU temp gauge just tells the ECU the engine temp for fueling purposes. It doesn't care what the temp is and neither does the ECU. If it fails a preset 50 degrees is used. That is not causing the engine to stall. The engine is throttled by fuel, that is controlled by the quantity servo via a sliding collar, not enough fuel for the engine load particularly on idle, then if the RPM drops below 500 it will stop, simple as that. Odds on injection pump causing the problems, been there, done that, got the T shirt.
 
wammers said:
The ECU temp gauge just tells the ECU the engine temp for fueling purposes. It doesn't care what the temp is and neither does the ECU. If it fails a preset 50 degrees is used. That is not causing the engine to stall. The engine is throttled by fuel, that is controlled by the quantity servo via a sliding collar, not enough fuel for the engine load particularly on idle, then if the RPM drops below 500 it will stop, simple as that.
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Fair enough I'm just puzzles as to why its so intermitant ? Or could it just be that its only just starting to wear . Also it doesn't really stall well not since I turned it to its correct 750!rpm but it does so often pause randomly some times once or a few consecutive blips but it won't stall Maybe its not quiet worn enough yet?
 
Grit Valve said:
Fair enough I'm just puzzles as to why its so intermitant ? Or could it just be that its only just starting to wear . Also it doesn't really stall well not since I turned it to its correct 750!rpm but it does so often pause randomly some times once or a few consecutive blips but it won't stall Maybe its not quiet worn enough yet?
Click to expand...

My money is on quantity servo on it's way home. It will get worse as time passes.
 
wammers said:
My money is on quantity servo on it's way home. It will get worse as time passes.
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I saw Datatek somewhere saying that the FIP can last a very long time; does the servo need replenishing to make this happen, or is it a little random?
 
TCubed said:
I saw Datatek somewhere saying that the FIP can last a very long time; does the servo need replenishing to make this happen, or is it a little random?
Click to expand...

Bit random. But any with over 100,000 miles on the clock would benefit from a overhaul of some kind, as would the injectors. The servo has wipers and tracks they don't last forever.
 
wammers said:
Bit random. But any with over 100,000 miles on the clock would benefit from a overhaul of some kind, as would the injectors. The servo has wipers and tracks they don't last forever.
Click to expand...

Is the wear random in the sense that all FIPs are slightly different, or that it depends on driving styles over the 100000 miles?
 
TCubed said:
Is the wear random in the sense that all FIPs are slightly different, or that it depends on driving styles over the 100000 miles?
Click to expand...

The quantity servo is constantly in use whilst the engine is running it relies on wipers contacting a track to give the ECU feedback of where it is. It basically mimics the throttle potentiometer. When the throttle is released an idle switch is engaged and the ECU controls the servo according to signals directly from the CPS. If a load is applied to the engine, power steering input, gear engagement, alternator load the idle RPM will drop the CPS detects this reduction and the ECU will tell the servo to move to increase fuel. If there is a glitch in the wiper track the ECU loses contact with the servo. If the glitch is bad enough the ECU thinks the servo has failed and will drop the stop solenoid. A total quantity servo fail is the only thing that will cause the ECU to shut the engine down. Next time you start up fast idle will be set so the servo is on a different part of the track and the engine runs normally. The engine stalling on occasion is a sure sign of servo track wear. It will get worse the longer it goes on.
 
wammers said:
The quantity servo is constantly in use whilst the engine is running it relies on wipers contacting a track to give the ECU feedback of where it is. It basically mimics the throttle potentiometer. When the throttle is released an idle switch is engaged and the ECU controls the servo according to signals directly from the CPS. If a load is applied to the engine, power steering input, gear engagement, alternator load the idle RPM will drop the CPS detects this reduction and the ECU will tell the servo to move to increase fuel. If there is a glitch in the wiper track the ECU loses contact with the servo. If the glitch is bad enough the ECU thinks the servo has failed and will drop the stop solenoid. A total quantity servo fail is the only thing that will cause the ECU to shut the engine down. Next time you start up fast idle will be set so the servo is on a different part of the track and the engine runs normally. The engine stalling on occasion is a sure sign of servo track wear. It will get worse the longer it goes on.
Click to expand...

Thanks :)
In the engines before ECUs was there any sort of mechanical equivalent that did the same job? Or is that why carburetted engines are a pain the start? :p
 
TCubed said:
Thanks :)
In the engines before ECUs was there any sort of mechanical equivalent that did the same job? Or is that why carburetted engines are a pain the start? :p
Click to expand...

All petrol engines are throttled by air, diesels are throttled by fuel. Carb engines rely on a depression being generated over a venturi to draw fuel out of a jet into the air stream which then atomises and mixes with the air. That is less efficient than fuel being injected at pressure into the air stream. The fuel is atomised by the act of injection therefore mixes more efficiently.
 
So when my pump got rebuild does this part of the system get changed or just checked that's what I don't understand I paid £600 to have it rebuilt and 20 k later its playing up
I'm very reluctant to buy a recon pump now becuse of this there is a £500 pounds differance from a recon or a new

I know you had trouble with yours wammers did you get a pump from the website you suggested on a previous thread ? If so had it been ok .
I'd like to buy a recon but my head is saying don't bother.
I phoned the one you suggested and they have said they fit a new top but I don't see how they can do it for £500 quid as the top alone is around £175 for a new one .
The place that I went to say they only check the tops in a rebuild this isn't replaced I don't know who to belive may be I could just get a top but again I'm reluctant as I don't trust the pump any more so if you could let me know before I go and splash out on a new one what your thoughts are.
 
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Grit Valve said:
So when my pump got rebuild does this part of the system get changed or just checked that's what I don't understand I paid £600 to have it rebuilt and 20 k later its playing up
I'm very reluctant to buy a recon pump now becuse of this there is a £500 pounds differance from a recon or a new

I know you had trouble with yours wammers did you get a pump from the website you suggested on a previous thread ? If so had it been ok .
I'd like to buy a recon but my head is saying don't bother.
I phoned the one you suggested and they have said they fit a new top but I don't see how they can do it for £500 quid as the top alone is around £175 for a new one .
The place that I went to say they only check the tops in a rebuild this isn't replaced I don't know who to belive may be I could just get a top but again I'm reluctant as I don't trust the pump any more so if you could let me know before I go and splash out on a new one what your thoughts are.
Click to expand...
For sure I would not lash out on a new FIP without confirmation that it was at fault. Diagnostics live data may show something, or swap the top for a cheap secondhand one and see if the fault changes/disappears.
I would just drive round the problem until it gets worse, learn to left foot brake.
 
Datatek said:
For sure I would not lash out on a new FIP without confirmation that it was at fault. Diagnostics live data may show something, or swap the top for a cheap secondhand one and see if the fault changes/disappears.
I would just drive round the problem until it gets worse, learn to left foot brake.
Click to expand...

Its defo the pump data all diagnostics came up fine and I've let the BMW man that has a unit in our grounds have a listen and check, the first think he said was the pump, live with for now , trouble is it was so bad today got to work fine as usual left it half an hour , I had to move a trailer and it was stalling like a crazy , hardly drivable .
Then on the way home 6 hours later fine,until I got home and going crazy again until the point of nearly stalling .so it is slowly getting worse . Im getting low in fuel again but it shouldn't matter as I know for sure the intank is working , I'm always listening with my stethoscope ;) and I have tested the intank pump flow many times.
trouble is I'm ok with fitting a new pump or recon pump but I don't fancy fiddling with the top yes I know I can run it without the air manifold ect but its very hit and miss road tests are needed ect so I don't really fancy that option I just want a pump I can plug in and play or better known as dial in and play :)
 
Grit Valve said:
Its defo the pump data all diagnostics came up fine and I've let the BMW man that has a unit in our grounds have a listen and check, the first think he said was the pump, live with for now , trouble is it was so bad today got to work fine as usual left it half an hour , I had to move a trailer and it was stalling like a crazy , hardly drivable .
Then on the way home 6 hours later fine,until I got home and going crazy again until the point of nearly stalling .so it is slowly getting worse . Im getting low in fuel again but it shouldn't matter as I know for sure the intank is working , I'm always listening with my stethoscope ;) and I have tested the intank pump flow many times.
trouble is I'm ok with fitting a new pump or recon pump but I don't fancy fiddling with the top yes I know I can run it without the air manifold ect but its very hit and miss road tests are needed ect so I don't really fancy that option I just want a pump I can plug in and play or better known as dial in and play :)
Click to expand...

Why do you think you need a road test to change pump top?
 
wammers said:
I have edited my post, you do not need a road test to change top of pump.
Click to expand...

I assume the pumps that are new or rebuilds are already calibrated so once they are fitted what ever revs are stored by the ECM remain .

I'm not willing to mess about adjusting the slider on the top if you get it out it can go from one extreme to the other ect although if a reasonable ajustment had been made upon road test it can be totally different in performance ect
 
Grit Valve said:
I assume the pumps that are new or rebuilds are already calibrated so once they are fitted what ever revs are stored by the ECM remain .

I'm not willing to mess about adjusting the slider on the top if you get it out it can go from one extreme to the other ect although if a reasonable ajustment had been made upon road test it can be totally different in performance ect
Click to expand...

Take the pump top off, fit the new one, gently nip bolts move until engine starts. Wait a few minutes for fast idle to end. Tap top back or forwards until you get a rock steady 750 RPM. Torque bolts down. Job done.
 
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