gR@HaM
Well-Known Member
Finally looked at this today, took the timing case front off and all looked okay.
However, turning the engine on the crank bolt there's some rotational movement of the crankshaft (both directions) before the gear moves.
Slackened the tensioner off and removed the belt to find small areas of textile abraded. I now need to wait till Monday to borrow a puller from work to get the gear off, but am fearing the worst - timing woodruff key hole must have worn bigger also.
Suppose I better check the pushrods are all straight??
However, turning the engine on the crank bolt there's some rotational movement of the crankshaft (both directions) before the gear moves.
Slackened the tensioner off and removed the belt to find small areas of textile abraded. I now need to wait till Monday to borrow a puller from work to get the gear off, but am fearing the worst - timing woodruff key hole must have worn bigger also.
Suppose I better check the pushrods are all straight??
I had this exact problem on my 200Tdi about 5 years ago.
When stripped out the 1st woodruff key was fine but the second had taken a chunk out of the crank just like yours.
I bought two new keys and a pack of chemical metal! Put the keys in place and built up the crank using chemical metal and sanded it once it had gone off.
After this I rebuilt it all and I used the airgun as well as loctite on the crank bolt. Then to be doubly sure I ran a seam of weld on three of the flats of the crank bolt!!!
The mileage at the time was 181000, the mileage now is 228000 and I have had no problems with it at all.
When stripped out the 1st woodruff key was fine but the second had taken a chunk out of the crank just like yours.
I bought two new keys and a pack of chemical metal! Put the keys in place and built up the crank using chemical metal and sanded it once it had gone off.
After this I rebuilt it all and I used the airgun as well as loctite on the crank bolt. Then to be doubly sure I ran a seam of weld on three of the flats of the crank bolt!!!
The mileage at the time was 181000, the mileage now is 228000 and I have had no problems with it at all.
therealboss
New Member
Could you get the pulley machined out to take a taperloc bush? Years ago I used to work with a machine that had a timing pulley that would work loose and mess up the shaft every 5 or 6 months, so I had the old pulley machined out to take a taperloc bush and never had a problem with it after that.
gR@HaM
Well-Known Member
Thanks, think I understand the concept but seems rather complicated. I also now have a problem with the crank gear, which obviously needs to be solid to keep timing correct.
Crazymac, can you remember the manufacturer of the liquid metal you used to fix?
I have various types of metal epoxy's but these are more of a putty and I would rather use something that has been tried and tested..
Thanks
Crazymac, can you remember the manufacturer of the liquid metal you used to fix?
I have various types of metal epoxy's but these are more of a putty and I would rather use something that has been tried and tested..
Thanks
Thanks, think I understand the concept but seems rather complicated. I also now have a problem with the crank gear, which obviously needs to be solid to keep timing correct.
Crazymac, can you remember the manufacturer of the liquid metal you used to fix?
I have various types of metal epoxy's but these are more of a putty and I would rather use something that has been tried and tested..
Thanks
I have two types, one is a putty type then you mix two pieces together and the other is in a tube and called Chemmet? (I think) I can't remember which one I used and I'm 15 miles away from my garage so can't really go and have a look to remind myself.
gR@HaM
Well-Known Member
Ar okay, thanks anyway.
Looking on internet, epoxy seems to be a fairly common route.
Here:
Motor: Crankshaft: My poor performance was indeed a cracked crankshaft [Archive] - MX-5 Miata Forum
Loctite quick metal is recommended, I work for a competitor of these guys so will see what I can get hold of from work
Looking on internet, epoxy seems to be a fairly common route.
Here:
Motor: Crankshaft: My poor performance was indeed a cracked crankshaft [Archive] - MX-5 Miata Forum
Loctite quick metal is recommended, I work for a competitor of these guys so will see what I can get hold of from work
gR@HaM
Well-Known Member
Finally got the motor back on the road at the weekend
Removing the crank gear revealled that the gear itself had worn away and not the second woodruff, thank god!
Replaced gear and used 'quiksteel' to fit new woodruff for damper pulley
Sanded down the epoxy and fitted new belt
Can see difference between old and new, where textile had started to abrade away
Fixed hole in timing case whilst I was at it
Same as last time took 2 attempts involving putting it all back together and then stripping it back down again due to getting timing slightly out and it not starting.
But it's now running, I'm sure better than before (or maybe all in the head!).
I tightened the crank bolt with big arse scaffold bar using wrench and locking bar from difflock.
Fingers crossed it shall last, watch this space..
Removing the crank gear revealled that the gear itself had worn away and not the second woodruff, thank god!
Replaced gear and used 'quiksteel' to fit new woodruff for damper pulley
Sanded down the epoxy and fitted new belt
Can see difference between old and new, where textile had started to abrade away
Fixed hole in timing case whilst I was at it
Same as last time took 2 attempts involving putting it all back together and then stripping it back down again due to getting timing slightly out and it not starting.
But it's now running, I'm sure better than before (or maybe all in the head!).
I tightened the crank bolt with big arse scaffold bar using wrench and locking bar from difflock.
Fingers crossed it shall last, watch this space..
Finally got the motor back on the road at the weekend
Removing the crank gear revealled that the gear itself had worn away and not the second woodruff, thank god!
Replaced gear and used 'quiksteel' to fit new woodruff for damper pulley
Sanded down the epoxy and fitted new belt
Can see difference between old and new, where textile had started to abrade away
Fixed hole in timing case whilst I was at it
Same as last time took 2 attempts involving putting it all back together and then stripping it back down again due to getting timing slightly out and it not starting.
But it's now running, I'm sure better than before (or maybe all in the head!).
I tightened the crank bolt with big arse scaffold bar using wrench and locking bar from difflock.
Fingers crossed it shall last, watch this space..
LOCKTITE-plus I wish you luck
jamesmartin
Well-Known Member
obviously you need taper key to hold pulley on woodruff key stops rotation on shaft ,if id known i could have given you a front cover
Yes that's the idea, I've seen 200 tdi repeated attempts at repair and it has ended in new crank as brazing etc didn't work.
300 tdi you may get lucky.
Clamping force,surface area and diameter are key to torque transmission,
jamesmartin
Well-Known Member
you have same clamping force on 200 ,but poorer key position
gR@HaM
Well-Known Member
Thanks both for the advice but please bear with me, what is obvious to you probably isn't to me! I'm currently doing best to my abilities ang trying to source as much info as possible before taking on the work.
Bush and bearing seal, can you help with the part I should buy and how I'd go about fitting? Thanks
Bush and bearing seal, can you help with the part I should buy and how I'd go about fitting? Thanks
Loctite 641 or better
I would thoroughly smear it on damper pulley internal face where the keyway is and bolt-Should it need removing then a oxy torch will soften it by warming bolt
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just a suggestion Call: +44 1442 278100
ask about 641 or if they have a stronger version
http://www.loctite.co.uk/cps/rde/xchg/henkel_uke/hs.xsl/technical-data-sheets-5361.htm
LOCTITE® 641 is designed for the bonding of cylindrical fitting
parts, particularly where disassembly is required for service
operations. The product cures when confined in the absence of
air between close fitting metal surfaces and prevents loosening
and leakage from shock and vibration. Typical applications
include retention of bearings onto shafts and into housings.
ask about 641 or if they have a stronger version
http://www.loctite.co.uk/cps/rde/xchg/henkel_uke/hs.xsl/technical-data-sheets-5361.htm
LOCTITE® 641 is designed for the bonding of cylindrical fitting
parts, particularly where disassembly is required for service
operations. The product cures when confined in the absence of
air between close fitting metal surfaces and prevents loosening
and leakage from shock and vibration. Typical applications
include retention of bearings onto shafts and into housings.
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jamesmartin
Well-Known Member
loctite and similar products can be bought in motor factors ,they come for different uses ans strenghts ie stud lock stops bolts coming undone and you pick strength so that it can be undone if ever needed as some require heat to remove bolt again brg, bush retainer is particulary strong and will hold pulley on shaft as long as fit is close enough, but getting pulley off again if needed might not be possible ,its applied by smearing small amount over shaft ,complete area of contact ,google loctite there should be some info ,i use brg fit when rebuilding gear box to hold outer races in place as are loose fit,and stud lock on bolts especially internal ones like con rod bolts ,nuts etc
