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LanzaroteSteve

New Member
Hope someone can help......
I have a 1988 RR Classic and I live in Lanzarote where it's very hot!
I have just bought the car and the fan blower motor is making a noise (progressively more as you increase the fan speed) but very little air is coming out of the vents.
I have the model with A/C and this doesn't seem to work either but I'll look into this once the fan problem has been fixed.
Any ideas how to trouble shoot this would be greatly appreciated.
 
I assume that the air flap (above the trans. tunnel carpet, centre under the dashboard) is opening? The system is operated by a vacuum pipe from the plastic ball thing under the hood. When you move the slider from recirculate to fresh air, with the engine running (or only recently turned off) you should hear a definate sound when the flap opens/closes. If not, the most likely cause is that the rubber vac. pipe has come off under the dash. This can be reached from the LH (passenger on a RHD vehicle) side by removing some of the fibre-board trim above the parcel shelf. Don't attempt it yourself if you suffer from a bad neck!
 
Thanks for that norseman, I'll check that out today. I did notice that the rubber pipe connecting to plastic ball under the hood was a little split at the point of connection so I cut this back a little and re connected. I thought that the plastic ball was only as the vacuum for the recirculating air and was not in the circuit for direct air so as the problem with little air is happening on both recirculate and fresh air I hadn't looked any further into it. Is the vacuum used for fresh air delivery also?
 
It certainly is. You don't get much air flow (ram or fan) through either the facia vents or floor vent when the slider is set to recirculate anyway. I don't know about the A/C function though as my (3) 3.5efi's never had it fitted. I'm quite happy with a sun-roof.
 
I've taken a look again today and the pipe connections to the vacuum under the bonnet seem fine. The tube leaving the vacuum and going into the connection on top of the engine wasn't good so have repaired that.
I followed the tube into the cabin (LHD) and removed the dash panel under the steering wheel. This tube connects behind the heater controls and all seems ok there.
I would say there is a definite noise when moving from recirculate to fresh air.
Blowers are still the same, motor whirring at different volume depending on the speed selected but still very little air coming through. I don't think its a loose vent connection or I would have air blowing out of somewhere but I don't.
Could it be an incorrect voltage to the blower motor causing it to run slower or would a low voltage simply cause it not to work at all?
Also is the A/C system completely removed from the system? Would it be better to spend some time fault finding on the A/C side or does this rely on the same motor to blow the air into the cabin?
Oh and I'm hardly getting any air through any vents on either settings or in any position screen or cabin!
Any help greatly appreciated.
 
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Just a thought, I don't know the Classic, but in the past I've had the fan come loose on the motor shaft so although the motor could be heard the fan didn't turn very much.
 
Cheers Datatek. That had crossed my mind as it sounds like that could be possible. Can anyone advise if there is a way to see the fan without taking out the dash?
 
Am I supposed to hear any noise from the vacuum reservoir (plastic ball thing under the bonnet)? I'm not sure the noise I hear when moving from recirculate to fresh air is actually a flap opening/closing sounds more like an electrical click.
Well the dash is now half off in the hunt for the blower fan. Looks like it could be a fun day!
 
LanzaroteSteve said:
Well the dash is now half off in the hunt for the blower fan. Looks like it could be a fun day!
Click to expand...

Whole dash has to come out and also the centre console to get at the heater unit, then heater unit has to come right out to get at the motor/fan. Don't forget to drain the cooling system if removing the heater box. Don't rush in to it, allow plenty of time.
 
Hi Classic Kev, Thanks for the heads up.
So far I've stripped down the lower part of the dash and removed the centre console. I can hear the fan a little better now and I think the fan may have become detached from the motor as I'm getting a small amount of air passing through but the whirring sounds like it's not properly attached to the fan as per what Datatek mentioned.
As far as I can see I would have to remove the blower controls completely to get access to motor behind it.
Not sure as yet why I would need to remove the heater unit as yet as this is in passenger footwell? I have an 1988 3.5 efi do you have the same model?

EDIT
Sorry I was referring to the heater core as the heater unit! oops. I know what you mean now Kev, it's turning into a bigger job now that I have to drain the coolant too! I hope it's something easily repaired after all of this as I don't want to have to put everything back together only to strip again when a part arrives!!!
 
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Sorry but just one more question for the moment.
Is it necessary to remove the engine drain plugs for this or would simply removing the radiator bottom hose do the trick?
 
To drain coolant, remove pressure cap, remove filler from radiator, remove cap from fill tower, remove bottom hose.
 
Thanks for the info Classic Kev, That's what I've done, however the manual says to remove the engine drain plugs (one of which looks like a pain to get to). I figured that as the heater hoses are higher than the radiator bottom hose it wouldn't be necessary to remove every drop of coolant from the engine.
I found okierover had a good description of the procedure for the removal of the dash etc. I think the manual I was using was for the non a/c version which looks a dam sight easier and doesn't require the whole dash out.
I'm now also looking at the wiring diagram for this and I'm not sure if a faulty ac/heater relay could have anything to do with this?
I think that the a/c system has a separate fan/blower to the heating circuit, can anyone confirm this? I'm getting nothing at all when I select the a/c position on the heater controls. Even if there is a problem with the a/c system would the fan not still spin?
Anyone know if the a/c fan is in the same area as the heater fan?
Sorry for all the questions, just keen to get this sorted and the truck back on the road.
 
LanzaroteSteve said:
Thanks for the info Classic Kev, That's what I've done, however the manual says to remove the engine drain plugs (one of which looks like a pain to get to). I figured that as the heater hoses are higher than the radiator bottom hose it wouldn't be necessary to remove every drop of coolant from the engine.
I found okierover had a good description of the procedure for the removal of the dash etc. I think the manual I was using was for the non a/c version which looks a dam sight easier and doesn't require the whole dash out.
I'm now also looking at the wiring diagram for this and I'm not sure if a faulty ac/heater relay could have anything to do with this?
I think that the a/c system has a separate fan/blower to the heating circuit, can anyone confirm this? I'm getting nothing at all when I select the a/c position on the heater controls. Even if there is a problem with the a/c system would the fan not still spin?
Anyone know if the a/c fan is in the same area as the heater fan?
Sorry for all the questions, just keen to get this sorted and the truck back on the road.
Click to expand...
On most cars the fan is common to both heater and aircon, never seen one with seperate fans but you never know.
 
LanzaroteSteve said:
Am I supposed to hear any noise from the vacuum reservoir (plastic ball thing under the bonnet)? I'm not sure the noise I hear when moving from recirculate to fresh air is actually a flap opening/closing sounds more like an electrical click.
Click to expand...

I've never been aware of any noise from the 'ball' but the noise as the flap closes should be a distinct 'clonk' or 'thud' & a lighter sound as it opens, rather like a 'rattle' Anyway you will be able to feel/see the flap under the lower dash, it's a metal rectangular plate lined on the inside with a thin sponge-like material.
 
Hi Norseman, only flap I can see moving under the lower dash is the one that controls whether the air goes to the windscreen or vents etc.
The noise I hear is more of a click than a thud so perhaps there is a problem with the vacuum however as the amount of air I'm getting through could barely blow out a candle I think that the fan could be loose on the motor or the bearings may need lubrication.
If it turns out to be that it just needs a new vacuum I'll be a bit annoyed now that I've practically stripped the whole dash out!
Is there anyway to actually test the vacuum ball thing to make sure it's ok as all of the pipework seems to be fine and connections look ok?
 
Datatek said:
On most cars the fan is common to both heater and aircon, never seen one with seperate fans but you never know.
Click to expand...

On RRC with aircon, the evaporator has two separate fans that draw in air and push it through the ducts independently of the main heater unit (or at least that is what I understand) and that is why air conditioned (cooled) air is only available from the fascia vents and not from the floor or screen vents.

To the OP, get yourself a workshop manual; should be able to download one.
 
Thanks Kev, I have the RAVE file downloaded from this site however I didn't find the instructions particularly easy to follow. For example in the fault diagnostics for this problem there is no mention of checking the hoses to the vacuum unit as mentioned by norseman.
I also found the dash removal info was much better on other sites than in the manual.
I'd also only been following the "Heating and ventilation" section and presumed (which of course I shouldn't) that the same fan/motor would be used to move the air for both.
Now that I've looked through the A/C section of the manual I've found that the A/C has a separate fan/motor inside the evaporator housing in the passenger side foot well (LHD).

I'm still interested to know if my problem could be anything electrical and would the fan even work if the voltage was low?
The only way I can see to check this for sure would be to get to the connector plug for the electrical connection to the blower motor. This however also appears to involve the removal of the whole unit! Thought someone may have known an easier way to get to the motor power cables?
I'd also like to know how little airflow you would get by removing a pipe from the vacuum ball under the bonnet? If its hardly any air then I still can't rule out there being a problem there.
Will have the unit out in a day or two so by that point hopefully I'll have worked it out.
 
To the best of my knowledge there are no shortcuts in dealing with heater/fan problems unless it is the switches but even removing the switches on the front of the heater box is not straight forward because the bracketry is pop riveted in place.

You say you want to get at the connector for the blower motor - remove the bonnet, the remove the decker panel. Remove the fan speed resistor, the thing it plugs in to is the blower motor supply. Also don't forget there is another resistor pack inside the motor housing and the only way to get to that is to remove the whole heater box.

I'm afraid you'll just have to bite the bullet and pull the heater box out and go from there. If you have the workshop manual you should be alright.
 
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