D

Dexter3036

New Member
Hi all, been reading up and found some very good information on here but thought I would register so I could ask directly, huge thanks in advance to anybody who can help me :eek:

I purchased a 2003 freelander TD4 on a whim, bit of a gamble as the seller didn't know anything about it other than it starts up and has the engine light on.

It drives but has NO power, it's like driving without a turbo or worse.. I doubt it would make it up a hill.. but on flat it can still reach 70+ but takes a year to get there :D

Symptoms:


  • As above, no power
  • Engine light on
  • Turns over fairly long before firing up (not ridiculously long)

After reading here about the fuel rail sensor.. I decided to take a look and found this:

image1_zpsbt1np69h.jpg


image2_zpsohrl0yo6.jpg


So it looks like that sensor loom is non-existent.. is it possible for that to cause such symptoms? is there a chance that replacing that part will solve all my issues or does it sound like major work?

p-s - any idea where to buy this part I can't find the loom thing anywhere?

Huge thanks for reading this

Dex
 
Yes, if the High Pressure Fuel Sensor is disconnected in such a way the engine will run in very major limp mode to protect itself, as it has no way of measuring the extremely high pressures it is producing in the rail.

The fuel sensor wiring actually has a common problem of water ingress, so a replacement loom for it is readily available (Part YMQ503320) from the likes of Island-4x4 or similar.

Quite a straight forward job, just have to remove three of the pins from the ECM connector (literally pop out with a small screwdriver), then drill a hole in the plastic housing to allow the replacement mini-loom to get to the ECU, and then route it to new to the sensor. Takes about an hour to install in all.

All in all, this wiring needs fixing before you can further assess the condition of the engine. Could be this solves it, or it is just masking other issues.
 
Bruthar said:
Yes, if the High Pressure Fuel Sensor is disconnected in such a way the engine will run in very major limp mode to protect itself, as it has no way of measuring the extremely high pressures it is producing in the rail.

The fuel sensor wiring actually has a common problem of water ingress, so a replacement loom for it is readily available (Part YMQ503320) from the likes of Island-4x4 or similar.

Quite a straight forward job, just have to remove three of the pins from the ECM connector (literally pop out with a small screwdriver), then drill a hole in the plastic housing to allow the replacement mini-loom to get to the ECU, and then route it to new to the sensor. Takes about an hour to install in all.

All in all, this wiring needs fixing before you can further assess the condition of the engine. Could be this solves it, or it is just masking other issues.
Click to expand...

Many thanks, I will order the part and cross my fingers
 
Bruthar said:
Could be this solves it, or it is just masking other issues.
Click to expand...

Yes, beware. IIRC there are about 4-5 things that can affect fuel pressure or the sensing of it to the point where the TD4 goes into 'gutless limp (dick) home' mode.

Having limped one home like that, its no fun but it can be done.

There are one or two fuel pumps at low pressure, I think another one at high pressure, and at least one fuel filter.

Plus the sensor you have arrived it. I think there are some other sensory bits too.

What is suspicious is that the wires to that appear to have been cut. I cant see why anyone would do that before selling it. Unless there was some other problem that could be explained by cutting them.

So I fully expect it has a bad fuel pump or equivalent as well.
 
lenny1234 said:
Yes, beware. IIRC there are about 4-5 things that can affect fuel pressure or the sensing of it to the point where the TD4 goes into 'gutless limp (dick) home' mode.

Having limped one home like that, its no fun but it can be done.

There are one or two fuel pumps at low pressure, I think another one at high pressure, and at least one fuel filter.

Plus the sensor you have arrived it. I think there are some other sensory bits too.

What is suspicious is that the wires to that appear to have been cut. I cant see why anyone would do that before selling it. Unless there was some other problem that could be explained by cutting them.

So I fully expect it has a bad fuel pump or equivalent as well.
Click to expand...


Many thanks for the information, I somehow drove it 75 miles home in that mode (back roads, hard work!) the engine seems decent just no power at all. I am also assuming there is other problems too but have my fingers crossed :confused:
 
Dexter3036 said:
Many thanks for the information, I somehow drove it 75 miles home in that mode (back roads, hard work!) the engine seems decent just no power at all. I am also assuming there is other problems too but have my fingers crossed :confused:
Click to expand...

WE may curse at limp home mode, but it does protect the engine when this sort of crap happens

2003 TD4 is the best freelander engine ever, so its worth fixing.
 
lenny1234 said:
WE may curse at limp home mode, but it does protect the engine when this sort of crap happens

2003 TD4 is the best freelander engine ever, so its worth fixing.
Click to expand...

True, although hills were a struggle :D

Is there any signs that indicate it might be the fuel pump also? am I stupid to think if it was this missing sensor + the fuel pump it wouldn't drive 75 miles ? (not very mechanical minded, apologies in advance :eek:)
 
Dexter3036 said:
True, although hills were a struggle :D

Is there any signs that indicate it might be the fuel pump also? am I stupid to think if it was this missing sensor + the fuel pump it wouldn't drive 75 miles ? (not very mechanical minded, apologies in advance :eek:)
Click to expand...

well mine was always a bit gutless from when \I bought it, then it got really gutless and the orange light came on.

Then it wouldn't start at all miles from home, till I pushed me foot hard down on the accelerator and tried again, and then it did.

I have a 2004 facelift model and that has the one low pressure fuel pump under the rear off side wheel arch, with the fuel filter.

Earlier ones have two low pressure pumps -the lifting pump and another one under the bonnet.

Its possible to actually put a pressure gauge on the fuel and I took mine to a dealer who did that - 120 PSI when it should have been 250-350. So new pump in and new filter, plus they cleaned up a load of other bits of blocked pipework in the fuel system that should have been part of a routine service. Essentially I spent a lot of money on replacing damn near anything that looked suspect.

I think 2003 is pre facelift and its more likely that you have a duff secondary fuel pump. On my older FL the main fuel pump also died and the net result was it wouldn't start at all.

I assume this is a bt of a 'project' car and you simply want to get it going without any time pressure: If so start with what you have already done, and see what happens next.

I don't myself know how to measure fuel pressure, so cant advise further.

It would be worth your while to ID exactly which model you have and whether it has the secondary pump or not, because if the problems stay the same post re-installation of the loom, its likley to be the secondary one if fitted.
 
lenny1234 said:
well mine was always a bit gutless from when \I bought it, then it got really gutless and the orange light came on.

Then it wouldn't start at all miles from home, till I pushed me foot hard down on the accelerator and tried again, and then it did.

I have a 2004 facelift model and that has the one low pressure fuel pump under the rear off side wheel arch, with the fuel filter.

Earlier ones have two low pressure pumps -the lifting pump and another one under the bonnet.

Its possible to actually put a pressure gauge on the fuel and I took mine to a dealer who did that - 120 PSI when it should have been 250-350. So new pump in and new filter, plus they cleaned up a load of other bits of blocked pipework in the fuel system that should have been part of a routine service. Essentially I spent a lot of money on replacing damn near anything that looked suspect.

I think 2003 is pre facelift and its more likely that you have a duff secondary fuel pump. On my older FL the main fuel pump also died and the net result was it wouldn't start at all.

I assume this is a bt of a 'project' car and you simply want to get it going without any time pressure: If so start with what you have already done, and see what happens next.

I don't myself know how to measure fuel pressure, so cant advise further.

It would be worth your while to ID exactly which model you have and whether it has the secondary pump or not, because if the problems stay the same post re-installation of the loom, its likley to be the secondary one if fitted.
Click to expand...


Many thanks for that, it does fire up everytime without fail just turns over for around 4 to 5 seconds.. I don't think I would know from looking as I don't even know what the fuel pump looks like, is there any way to tell from the body shape or anything?

Logbook says: freelander td4 es
22/5/2003
 
Dexter3036 said:
is there any way to tell from the body shape or anything?

Logbook says: freelander td4 es
22/5/2003
Click to expand...

Very much so: Facelift has completely different instrument panel styling and some added plastic in the bumper area.

This is the typical later model with headlamp guards and lots of plastic around the radiator area. Note front fog lamps deep in bumper base.

freelander1.jpg


And this is the pre facelift model

540x405_land-rover-freelander-lpg-7053591.jpg


Much simpler body work. No front fog lamps. (ok some aftermarket ones have been fitted!)

The instrument panels also changed a LOT.

If the fuel gauge is on the far left, then the rev counter, then the speedo, then the temp gauge, its old style, with most of the warnings on a strip at the bottom.

the facelift model has the fuel and temp in the middle, one above the other, with the two big dials one on each side, and the warning lamps dotted around INSIDE the other gauges.

facelift happened in 2004, so its likely you have pre facelift - IMHO a prettier car anyway.

This is a diagram of the fuel system on an early TD4

14250d1267793525-td4-under-bonnet-fuel-pump-noise-scan-100305-0003.jpg




Note that just about any part of that can cause limp home issues if its below spec.

Not also the primary lift pump is in the tank itself. I can't remember how you get to it. Filter is part of that pump assembly.
 
Last edited:
Being a mid 2003 Freelander TD4, the only low pressure pump it will have is one situated next to the offside rear wheel arch. I believe they changed the setup from having the pump in the tank and a secondary in the engine bay to this style in around mid-2001 and stuck with it.

As I said earlier, without fixing the high-pressure sensor wiring you won't be able to assess anything else on the vehicle, as there will not be much demand asked from the low pressure pump or other components whilst in limp mode. So there is not a lot of point in looking into the low pressure pump or anything until this is sorted.
 
awesome knowledge! she's definatley pre facelift :eek:

Hopefully will be able to get the sensor tomorrow and see what happens :eek:
 
Bruthar said:
Being a mid 2003 Freelander TD4, the only low pressure pump it will have is one situated next to the offside rear wheel arch. I believe they changed the setup from having the pump in the tank and a secondary in the engine bay to this style in around mid-2001 and stuck with it.

As I said earlier, without fixing the high-pressure sensor wiring you won't be able to assess anything else on the vehicle, as there will not be much demand asked from the low pressure pump or other components whilst in limp mode. So there is not a lot of point in looking into the low pressure pump or anything until this is sorted.
Click to expand...

I cant be definite, but my older one was 2003 and I am pretty sure it was a twin pump job. With tank mounted primary pump.

But I cant be definite so the jury is still out..

Anyway lifting the bonnet will reveal whether or not there is a secondary pump anyway
 
Well guys I managed to do this thanks to the excellent information..

Seems to be completely fixed now :D:D:D:D

Engine light went off, pulls like a train!

Thanks again
 
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