Webley1991 · Nov 19, 2015

I have an annoying starting issue with my Series 3 2 1/4 Diesel

I find that it is impossible to start from cold with the hand throttle set to idle speed. This is with the heater plugs set to on for a good 10 seconds.

If I move the throttle up a few notches, it will then eventually start and make a lot of white smoke.

If I move the hand throttle back to the idle position at this point, it will cut out. I have to wait a few minutes until the engine is warm for it to stay ticking over on the idle speed setting.

This was a fully rebuilt engine and injector pump. Where would be the first suggestion to look at what might be causing this?

Nothing should be too damp is it is kept inside a garage.

Thanks for any replies.

jamesmartin · Nov 19, 2015

low compression ,poor timing ,poor pump and injectors

Blackburn · Nov 19, 2015

Should not need any throttle to start as pump is designed to give extra fuel for start.
ie once running governor reduces fuelling.

honolulujoe · Nov 20, 2015

I've always had to press the pedal to get mine to fire, I assumed that was normal

Webley1991 · Nov 20, 2015

Thanks for the replies.

jamesmartin said:
low compression ,poor timing ,poor pump and injectors

I would hope that it wouldn't be low compression, poor pump or poor injectors as I had everything overhauled to as-new condition. However, the timing could be out.

Land Raver · Nov 20, 2015

If I remember right, the handbook suggests starting with foot to the floor whilst cranking.
I've never needed to with mine though. Are you sure your heater plugs are working properly?

A bit of smoke on start up is reassuring. Only time to worry is when there's no smoke at all.

Webley1991 · Nov 24, 2015

I tested each plug as shown in the manual so I don't see why they shouldn't be. Not unless they aren't getting enough current.

I will have to try starting it with the pedal to the floor.

nickjaxe · Nov 25, 2015

No need to mess with the hand throttle...just press the foot throttle.

When I had a 2.25d...I used to first of all....crank the motor for 5 secs and dont pre heat....then give it 5 or 10secs of heat...should fire right away.

The first cranking squirts some fuel in...then heat it and away you go.

Smoke can be pump timing...its very critical.

Nick.

reiny · Nov 26, 2015

If I recall correctly (it has been 16 years since I had one of these lumps, albeit a very tired one), they need to have the throttle floored to fire up. When I replaced that engine with a freshly rebuilt 2.5 N/A I was really disappointed to find out that it would take just as long to fire up as the 2.25 I had just chucked into a skip (I was flooring the throttle too). I spoke to a fellow enthusiast (internet forums hadn't been invented at the time - they followed about a year later) who told me that the injection pump on the 2.5 is totally different to the 2.25 and needs to be left at idle to fire up. 7 seconds on the heaters, no feet on the pedals and away it went. So, in a nutshell, with your 2.25, bury the throttle in the footwell and give it a go.

reiny · Nov 26, 2015

nickjaxe said:
No need to mess with the hand throttle...just press the foot throttle.

When I had a 2.25d...I used to first of all....crank the motor for 5 secs and dont pre heat....then give it 5 or 10secs of heat...should fire right away.

The first cranking squirts some fuel in...then heat it and away you go.

Smoke can be pump timing...its very critical.

Nick.

That's what i used to do too! There used to be an ex-school teacher of mine who's guts I hated who would be jogging in my direction every morning. I would crank the motor for a few seconds, apply the heaters until he was about 30 metres away, then I would hit the starter and engulf him in a cloud of carcinogenic soot and evil

honolulujoe · Nov 26, 2015

hahaha I do that to people I don't like too, see em coming and time it right :

tottot · Nov 26, 2015

nickjaxe said:
No need to mess with the hand throttle...just press the foot throttle.

When I had a 2.25d...I used to first of all....crank the motor for 5 secs and dont pre heat....then give it 5 or 10secs of heat...should fire right away.

The first cranking squirts some fuel in...then heat it and away you go.

+1 on nickjax method,helps a lot when its cold weather.

honolulujoe · Nov 26, 2015

I shallgive it a try, mine does always start but does take a bit longer when its cold/damp

Webley1991 · Dec 7, 2015

Someone who knows a lot more about diesel engines than I do commented that they could hear a chuffing sound in the exhaust note.

They called this "hunting". Apparently it means that the pump timing needs to be advanced a few degrees.

Could this be connected to the starting trouble?

jamesmartin · Dec 7, 2015

Webley1991 said:
Someone who knows a lot more about diesel engines than I do commented that they could hear a chuffing sound in the exhaust note.

They called this "hunting". Apparently it means that the pump timing needs to be advanced a few degrees.

Could this be connected to the starting trouble?

id be looking at tappets ie valves fully opening or passing gas,if you can hear a chuffing,though timing is likely to be retarded slightly through wear in chain and skew gear

honolulujoe · Dec 7, 2015

nickjaxe said:
.

When I had a 2.25d...I used to first of all....crank the motor for 5 secs and dont pre heat....then give it 5 or 10secs of heat...should fire right away.

The first cranking squirts some fuel in...then heat it and away you go.

Nick.

tried that the other morning when it was frosty, worked a treat

nickjaxe · Dec 7, 2015

Yes if your pump timing is retarded...it will have a sort of miss at idle with puffs of blue smoke more so when cold...so best checked engine warm...I used to just advance the pump a mm at a time....if the engine after adjustment sounds knocky or harsh you have advanced it to far.

Nick.

nickjaxe · Dec 7, 2015

Re my cold start method....best done with full throttle during the pre start cranking...to get more neat fuel in.

Webley1991 · Dec 8, 2015

Thanks for the replies. It runs at idle without any smoke.

It is a fully overhauled engine including a new timing chain, so there shouldn't be any wear or slack in the chain.

Webley1991 · Feb 6, 2016

I adjusted the pump timing back a bit and it seems to run better at idle with the engine warm.

However, when it's cold it does seem to misfire a bit and make puffs of smoke as nickjaxe described.

Since even before the ajustment it seems to struggle to start at idle speed. I find that I need to put the hand throttle up a few notches to get it to start. I have to idle it fast for a couple of minutes until it warms up a bit. Is this normal?

it also throws out a lot of white smoke when it first turns over.

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