[wammers]

I have played with these pumps before on cars I have owned I have never messed around by adding shims etc
the one in the vid is similer to my old d1
still has the mushroom type valve on the top there is a air line that runs to the top of this this is the boost pin ..there is a ratchet type system underneath the diapghram I wound mine in a 1 turn it made a difference under boost
little I knew I had dribbly injectors and they came back as a fail ..my fuel injection guy said to me don't use them as this may damage your engine

my d1 is still sitting out side my house as we speak wrecked engine

I changed the fuel pump settings while using week injectors dribbly injectors
to a point I had a ocasianail blue flame out the exhaust when the engine was used heavily

I have learned from past experience make sure the injectors are working fine have them tested before playing with fuel pumps

And the moral behind this story is, don't play with things you don't understand.

 

[ozzyboydeano]

And the moral behind this story is, don't play with things you don't understand.

don't worry mate I have a fair understanding how they work not exactly every bit of detail but most of ...but with out having the system tested from a specialist ..they run the risk

I normally use the same injection specialist that we use at work costs me nothing to have injectors tested as well as some fuel pumps I do drop in a carton of beer every now and again though keeps him sweet

the vid can be also misleading to others .there could be a slight blockage resulting in high pressure not enough flow etc and now he is compensating for other issues .by changing the timing or fuel rate

like I say without knowing how the injector performs crack pressure spill pressure and atomisation adjusting the fuel pump to compensate can be an engine killer

 

[wammers]

don't worry mate I have a fair understanding how they work not exactly every bit of detail but most of ...but with out having the system tested from a specialist ..they run the risk

I normally use the same injection specialist that we use at work costs me nothing to have injectors tested as well as some fuel pumps I do drop in a carton of beer every now and again though keeps him sweet

the vid can be also misleading to others .there could be a slight blockage resulting in high pressure not enough flow etc and now he is compensating for other issues .by changing the timing or fuel rate

like I say without knowing how the injector performs crack pressure spill pressure and atomisation adjusting the fuel pump to compensate can be an engine killer

He is not altering the fuel rate. The mod is about altering the amount of automatic dynamic timing adjustment available. It does not effect fuel amount at all, just the point of injection. The pre-injection internal pressure is provided by the internal pressure pump. This runs at between 3.5 and 4.5 bars dependent on RPM. At around 4.5 bars the pressure relief valve opens and returns fuel to the inlet side of the internal pressure pump. Normal static on these pumps is 1.54 mm lift on cam at TDC. The dynamic timing device advances this subject to internal fuel pressure as RPMs rise. This mod just gives slightly more available dynamic advance.

 

[ozzyboydeano]

He is not altering the fuel rate. The mod is about altering the amount of automatic dynamic timing adjustment available. It does not effect fuel amount at all, just the point of injection. The pre-injection internal pressure is provided by the internal pressure pump. This runs at between 3.5 and 4.5 bars dependent on RPM. At around 4.5 bars the pressure relief valve opens and returns fuel to the inlet side of the internal pressure pump. Normal static on these pumps is 1.54 mm lift on cam at TDC. The dynamic timing device advances this subject to internal fuel pressure as RPMs rise. This mod just gives slightly more available dynamic advance.

so if one has a dribbly injectors or a worn out injector nozzles advancing the fuel injection is the way to go via the fuel pump to gain more power or is this just compensating
bandade fix

and without knowing how the injectors performance its only a big guessing game

the injectors them selves have moving parts as well as preloads and tolerances.... like I say there is no electronic on the injector .they rely on the fuel injection pump when to open and close ...

what if the injector does not like to the different fuel settings ? without known you have a worn out nozzle or the injector is fatigued advancing any timing should be put on hold

 

[wammers]

so if one has a dribbly injectors or a worn out injector nozzles advancing the fuel injection is the way to go via the fuel pump to gain more power or is this just compensating
bandade fix

and without knowing how the injectors performance its only a big guessing game

I can only explain what it does. Whomsoever is fitting it will have to make the decision as to it's suitability for his particular car.

 

[ozzyboydeano]

I can only explain what it does. Whomsoever is fitting it will have to make the decision as to it's suitability for his particular car.

basically its a mechanical version of a remap and a mild remap if that

would like to see some rpms and boost gauge readings before and after

it been known some remaps to create conflicts just saying

 

[wammers]

basically its a mechanical version of a remap

it been known some remaps to create conflicts just saying

On the EDC version of the pump a remap just alters fuelling it does not effect the timing modulation. There is a very simple way of improving low down tractability and power on the mechanical VE pump.

 

[ozzyboydeano]

On the EDC version of the pump a remap just alters fuelling it does not effect the timing modulation. There is a very simple way of improving low down tractability and power on the mechanical VE pump.

alters the fuelling how ?

 

[wammers]

alters the fuelling how ?

It changes the fuel map to give slightly more fuel at any given throttle position within the smoke limitations. There is only one way to increase power and torque on a diesel engine without any other modification, that is to increase fuel.

 

[ozzyboydeano]

what about a clean burn scenario those who think they roll coal...ie black smoke ...... a clean burn actually produces more power its a well known fact

so lets just dump in more fuel using the stock intercooler and original waste gate settings should work right and overlook EGTs on the stock system should be ok

 

[wammers]

what about a clean burn scenario those who think they role coal...ie black smoke ...... a clean burn actually produces more power its a well known fact

so lets just dump in more fuel using the stock intercooler and original waste gate settings should work right

You still get a clean burn if the remap is done properly within the smoke limitation map. The stock intercooler and waste gate settings will work just fine.

 

[ozzyboydeano]

You still get a clean burn if the remap is done properly within the smoke limitation map. The stock intercooler and waste gate settings will work just fine.

that's if injectors are working correctly..how does one know if there are any compensation just because the fuel pump has a set or desired pressure

how sure are you all 4 Injectors are working the same ?

 

[wammers]

that's if injectors are working correctly..how does one know if there are any compensation

Anyone with sense would not use a remap to cure bad running problems.

 

[ozzyboydeano]

Anyone with sense would not use a remap to cure bad running problems.

how dead set sure about this this is a forum full of many people some probly have never changed a tyre in there life or even where to check engine oil level never mind diagnosing power issues

to have the injectors checked is cheap to have the injectors serviced is costly as the injector at fault maybe unserviceable and maybe a new injector is needed ..

to be honest some injectors failing don't give off any other symptoms or rough running as other injectors compensate so without having them tested .like I say it can be a guessing game

 

[lynall]

Increased the stroke of the timing device piston. This will give more advance at higher RPM and internal fuel pressure.

Thanks that actually makes sense to me.

 

[wammers]

how dead set sure about this this is a forum full of many people some probly have never changed a tyre in there life or even where to check engine oil level never mind diagnosing power issues

to have the injectors checked is cheap to have the injectors serviced is costly as the injector at fault maybe unserviceable and maybe a new injector is needed ..

to be honest some injectors failing don't give off any other symptoms or rough running as other injectors compensate so without having them tested .like I say it can be a guessing game

I can only speak from my perspective and not from the perspective of others. Too many people who do not know what they are doing read tuning comics and bugger their cars up.

 

[ozzyboydeano]

I can only speak from my perspective and not from the perspective of others. Too many people who do not know what they are doing read tuning comics and bugger their cars up.

as we normally use the drivers chair as the dyno type system
same on other parts of the forum ..people advise so many turns on the waste gate actuator arm should be the same as another without any boost pressure gauge installed ... not to mention different spring ratings and age will have a big affect

I have learned my own mistakes that playing with fuel pumps a pyro gauge should be fitted... just like a boost gauge should be fitted when playing with turbo pressures

turning the fuel up or advancing the fuel on an injector that has done 3000k will perform differently to a new injector

 

[wammers]

as we normally use the drivers chair as the dyno type system
same on other parts of the forum ..people advise so many turns on the waste gate actuator arm should be the same as another without any boost pressure gauge installed ... not to mention different spring ratings and age will have a big affect

I have learned my own mistakes that playing with fuel pumps a pyro gauge should be fitted... just like a boost gauge should be fitted when playing with turbo pressures

turning the fuel up or advancing the fuel on an injector that has done 3000k will perform differently to a new injector

If you have a below par engine sort it out. Looking on Ebay and thumbing through tuning mags for sometimes dubious modifications to improve performance is a fools errand.

 

[ozzyboydeano]

If you have a below par engine sort it out. Looking on Ebay and thumbing through tuning mags for sometimes dubious modifications to improve performance is a fools errand.

or those who think they know what there doing really don't ... and modifying the fuel pump it feels great in the drivers doing it by trial an error of feel
was the fuel pump checked for flow rates was the injectors tested for crack pressures and spray atomization this leads back to a fools errand also

on the flip side
normally when you remap you need extra bolt ons .

normally the correct way to remap is bolt ons first like exhaust intake intercooler larger injector nozzles etc then the remap is then to suit

not the other way round lets remap then do bolt ons

 

[wammers]

or those who think they know what there doing really don't ... and modifying the fuel pump it feels great in the drivers chair without known there engine is on kill
was the fuel pump checked for flow rates was the injectors tested for crack pressures and spray atomization this leads back to a fools errand also

on the flip side
normally when you remap you need extra bolt ons .

normally the correct way to remap is bolt ons first like exhaust intake intercooler larger injector nozzles etc then the remap is then to suit

not the other way round lets remap then do bolt ons

That would entirely depend on the level you wish to achieve. The P38 diesel can be mapped from 136 BHP and 280 Nm of torque to around 175 BHP and 320 Nm of torque with no need for any other modification. Providing the engine is sound and running normally that is. Chipping one to cure a sick engine, as said earlier, is stupid.