Where to after the P38?

Hi all just interested to hear your thoughts on something I have been mulling over for a while...

...my P38, although it's had some issues, has in the 18 months I have owned it so far been great. The hassle compared with some Jap alternatives more than outweighed by its sheer competence as both family and towing vehicle.

But is was made in 1995 and won't go on forever. In fact, I would be happier changing it for something newer sooner rather than later, the idea being that it can be the main family car on a day to day basis.

Obvious next step is L322 but at my price point I am worried about all the auto gearbox stories and the earlier ones seem almost as underliable as the P38 is, and harder to fix.

One option may be to go for a newer L322 V8 Petrol - do these suffer from the same gearbox issues as the earlier diesels? LPG or Bio fuel could help to offset the higher running costs, although the cost of adding LPG here is France is very high (4K). And the thought of a V8 does have some appeal... is this BMW engine reliable?

What else should I be looking at? Budget limited to £12Kish....

Happy to consider Jap options, but both the Land Cruiser and Shogun I have been in seem very crude and cramped compared to the P38, despite being at least 10 years younger.....

Thoughts?

Cheers

Jerry

Jerry, the L322 is a nightmare compared to the P38, incredibly complex electronics. TD6 is a good engine and more economical than the P38 but does not it seems like bio diesel. Look at RS2000customs thread about gearboxes. Better off with a late P38 IMO

jerrytlr said:

Hi all just interested to hear your thoughts on something I have been mulling over for a while...

...my P38, although it's had some issues, has in the 18 months I have owned it so far been great. The hassle compared with some Jap alternatives more than outweighed by its sheer competence as both family and towing vehicle.

But is was made in 1995 and won't go on forever. In fact, I would be happier changing it for something newer sooner rather than later, the idea being that it can be the main family car on a day to day basis.

Obvious next step is L322 but at my price point I am worried about all the auto gearbox stories and the earlier ones seem almost as underliable as the P38 is, and harder to fix.

One option may be to go for a newer L322 V8 Petrol - do these suffer from the same gearbox issues as the earlier diesels? LPG or Bio fuel could help to offset the higher running costs, although the cost of adding LPG here is France is very high (4K). And the thought of a V8 does have some appeal... is this BMW engine reliable?

What else should I be looking at? Budget limited to £12Kish....

Happy to consider Jap options, but both the Land Cruiser and Shogun I have been in seem very crude and cramped compared to the P38, despite being at least 10 years younger.....

Thoughts?

Cheers

Jerry

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hi,my thoughts would be to buy the latest model of p38 you can buy.you know what the issue's are with them,you like them as a vehicle and you wont have to break the bank to buy one.then if it ever goes wrong,then you will have the funds there to be able to repair it.

Some biased reviews here

2.0_hippo said:

Some biased reviews here

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how so????

As with any vehicle purchase, go in with your eyes wide open. Buy with your brain and not your heart. If you feel any doubt about a vehicle you're looking at, trust that doubt and walk away. There are too many out there to buy the first one you come across. Research the faults so you know what to look for. Make sure all recall work has been carried out.

With 12k you could virtuly have your p38 rebuilt over the years , and still earn a little but of interest .

People putting downers on L322's without even owning their own one ...

2.0_hippo said:

People putting downers on L322's without even owning their own one ...

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you don't have to own something to know/find out what the problems are do you.

Jerry,

I've just done something something similar to what you are mulling over and some have mentioned already.

I have just part ex'd my 1995 4.6 P38 for a 2000 4.6 Vogue.

My 1995 has been great, bought as a toy to play with but then turned into my everyday car. It has allowed me to learn about the car and has never let me down once in my 18 month ownership. My thinking was as yours, this is going to end at some time, and I knew there were things that will need doing soon which will cost money and I will never recoup.

Therefore I decided it was time to spend that money now on a newer, better version.

I am not a fan of the L322 purely on looks (not my taste) so went looking for as newer P38 as I could. And I found one, with as much documentation and history as there could be in the most immaculate condition.

The condition and the documentation of my new car all adds up, but I am still taking a chance, just a lesser one. Mind you, you take a chance with buying any car these days!! Even a new one! My fingers are going to be crossed for the next few months!!

Whatever one you go for make sure everything adds up. Check if known faults/recalls have been done.

As someone said previously, any doubt walk away.

Hope that helps

L322 is a brilliant vehicle - but complex and expensive...

The BMW M62 engine is a good strong motor with a long pedegree behind it, and hence quite a bit of information online to pour over. BMW have used the engine in various guises since the mid ninties, I had the 4.0 and 4.4 version in both the 740's I have owned previously...

Looked after they are pretty good, not Jap reliable, but not bad either.

The ZF boxes are better than the early Gm's on the diesels, but are still prone to issues....and yes the Torque Convertor on the ZF box is prone to wear like the GM, only difference is the ZF box gives you warning before hand by way of 'Cattle Grid' juddering on light throttle between 30-50mph.

As many have read on here, I have had mine since end of May and I have so far:

Replaced OSF ABS sensor
Replaced Theromstat
Replaced Locking Wheel Nuts
Replaced all Brake Pads and Sensors
Replaced Fuel Pump
Replaced Radiator
Replaced NSF ABS Sensor
Recalibrated the EAS Ride Height
Cleaned NSR Height Sensor

Purchased All Comms
Purchased New Jack
Purchased S/H Load Space Cover

They are just as reliable as the P38, only difference is the cost of parts and the complexity of fault finding.

Mine on Gas returns 15.3mpg and is about 22p per mile to run.

The ride is sublime compared to the P38, the interior trim may not be as robust as the P38, as Datatek always like to mention the plastic is spray coloured and not self coloured, and does show wear patches.

If someone offered me a total sorted and guarenteed not to fail P38 back in replacement to the L322 would I take it...No, the L322 is, to me, the perfect vehcile - I love my 1995-2000 7'er BMW's and I am a massive Range Rover fan and as this is basically a 740iL with the 4.4 Engine on stilts with Range Rover on the front - to me it is the perfect vehicle......

I think its fair to say that when budgeting for any Range Rover, P38 or L322, the budget should cover future repairs / maintenance. If you spend all your budget on stretching to an L322 then your in for some financial woes.
Some (like me) opt to spend less on the purchase - buy a later / last production P38 & keep a good wedge of cash available for the inevitable.
Depends on your budget at the end of the day.

2.0_hippo said:

Some biased reviews here

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You have had plenty of problems with yours, the list of problems posted on LZ and the number of people coming with problems now approaches that of the P38 and the problems are almost always more difficult/expensive to fix. I don't need to own one, I have friends with enough problems for me to know they are not reliable.

Datatek said:

You have had plenty of problems with yours, the list of problems posted on LZ and the number of people coming with problems now approaches that of the P38 and the problems are almost always more difficult/expensive to fix. I don't need to own one, I have friends with enough problems for me to know they are not reliable.

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And back in the mid Ninties when the P38 was released and started going into the second hand market...the owners of Classics were saying the same thing....

Please let this not be another P38 vs L322 argument again...

they are both unreliable - if you don't like the repair costs of a L322, don't buy one...but please can we not argue with those that do want/have one...

Saint.V8 said:

And back in the mid Ninties when the P38 was released and started going into the second hand market...the owners of Classics were saying the same thing....

Please let this not be another P38 vs L322 argument again...

they are both unreliable - if you don't like the repair costs of a L322, don't buy one...but please can we not argue with those that do want/have one...

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:clap2::clap2::clap2:

Are early V8 L322s really that bad?, I fancy one next and I thought the gearbox problems were just on the diesels? At least you don't have to be concerned with head gaskets, overheating and slipped liners, etc

Me too. I fancy the V8 L322 next but was worried about the gearbox? Mind you... having a 4.6 with 2 headgaskets gone in the last 2 months its got to be an improvement - i'm presuming the 4.4 is a big improvement.

stjohnsmythe said:

Are early V8 L322s really that bad?, I fancy one next and I thought the gearbox problems were just on the diesels? At least you don't have to be concerned with head gaskets, overheating and slipped liners, etc

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martynv8 said:

Me too. I fancy the V8 L322 next but was worried about the gearbox? Mind you... having a 4.6 with 2 headgaskets gone in the last 2 months its got to be an improvement - i'm presuming the 4.4 is a big improvement.

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The ZF box is better than the Diesel GM box, and aslong as you are up to snuff on the servicing/oil changes they are very good....but like all friction products will eventually wear out - just not as quickly or as badly as the GM box...

Engine is strong as an ox and generates 280+ BHP which is enouigh to propel these behemoths along at a good lick with little struggle...

Engine is Good aslong as it is serviecd
Box is OK if serviced, but will wear eventually
Early Electronics are a little iffy and prone to hissy fits

Get the latest model you can, preferably 2006+ or fit a recon Torque Convertor

Saint.V8 said:

L322 is a brilliant vehicle - but complex and expensive... (etc)

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Thanks Saint this is exactly the sort of info I was hoping for - thought the mpg might be a bit closer to 20 though, what sort of driving gives you 15 (I know that lpg mpg will be lower than petrol)?

Any other input re the BMW V8s?

I know reliability is a key factor but it is not the only one. I run a Lotus V8 and I also love French cars. I can cope with not having the highest scoring car on JD Power!! what is far more important is what it is like when it is working, as even with my P38, that is most of the time!! For example Jeep Cherokee is a pretty reliable car, but awful to drive.

The GM gearbox issues on L322 and also the liner and head gasket issues on the Rover V8s are a bit worrying though, so I don't think either of those is somewhere I would go - better to hang on to the P38.

Hence my desire to get some feedback on the V8 petrol L322s and also hear any other (non L/R allowed too) suggestions

Thanks again for the input so far



Cheers

Jerry
ps I don't think Keith is anti L322 as such, just reporting what he has seen....based on which, he wouldn't buy one. I value that input.

jerrytlr said:

Thanks Saint this is exactly the sort of info I was hoping for - thought the mpg might be a bit closer to 20 though, what sort of driving gives you 15 (I know that lpg mpg will be lower than petrol)?

Any other input re the BMW V8s?

I know reliability is a key factor but it is not the only one. I run a Lotus V8 and I also love French cars. I can cope with not having the highest scoring car on JD Power!! what is far more important is what it is like when it is working, as even with my P38, that is most of the time!! For example Jeep Cherokee is a pretty reliable car, but awful to drive.

The GM gearbox issues on L322 and also the liner and head gasket issues on the Rover V8s are a bit worrying though, so I don't think either of those is somewhere I would go - better to hang on to the P38.

Hence my desire to get some feedback on the V8 petrol L322s and also hear any other (non L/R allowed too) suggestions

Thanks again for the input so far



Cheers

Jerry
ps I don't think Keith is anti L322 as such, just reporting what he has seen....based on which, he wouldn't buy one. I value that input.

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90l tank - 72l usable...I get on average about 225 - 240 miles from a tank full

It helps that I drive gently, don't race, brake very very early, never leap off at the lights/junctions/roundabouts....I am not slow or hesitant, just smooth and road reading a long way ahead...

My Journey to work is 21 miles....8 miles are Country Lanes at a steady 40mph - 2 miles on a 50mph Duel Carriageway to the M25 - 7 miles on the M25 between J11 to J14 at a stead 50mph to J12 then 60mph to J14 then 4 miles round the Airport Perimeter to the office at 30-35mph and stop start between the Traffic Lights by World Cargo.

Journey Home is 21 miles either:
7 miles along the A312 from Hatton Cross to the A316 at Hanworth then A316 all along the M3 to J3 and off the A322 towards Guildford

or

4 miles along Perimeter Road to M25, M25 to J12 Staines, then off onto the A30 up Egham Hill past Holloway College, past Virginia Water, and then through Sunningdale and through Chobahm Village onto the A322 towards Guildford.....

I start work at 7.45 so leave before the main rush hour and usually finish at 15.45 so I leave before the main rush hour.

Journey time is about 50 minutes in the morning and 1hr in the evening.

The trick is to drive smoothly (not necessarily slow - just smmooth and anticipate the traffic and road read well ahead)

The worst I have had was 12.6 when on holiday in the Isle Of Wight with 4 fully grown adults in plus the Girlfriends enormous amount of camera gear in the boot....up hills and country roads stop/start etc....and I still managed 12.6 for the week we were there.

The BMW V8 is a strong and reliable unit and spares are readily available - often times you can get parts from a BMW dealer/indy rather than LR and can work out cheaper.

there were changes made to the BMW unit to suit the LR product better including a revised oil pick up and strong crank case to fit the fron diff on to.

The main issues with the BMW unit is the VANOS system, this is basically a Varible Valve timing device mounted on the front end, they tend to wear the guide channels and rattle about, can be expansive to replace, but atleast it is double VANOS as that will pretty much kill the bank balance to repair/replace.

As with all products, servicing is vital nad miss a stamp at your peril.

Getting hold of your own Diagnostic device is essential, currently the choices are:

All Comms - code reader and recals EAS - About £200ish
Gap Diagnositics IIDTool - £300ish and very powerfull little device
Bearmach Hawkeye - £350ish - can't recal the EAS
Faultmate Extreme - £1000 and the mutts danglies...

There is no Nanocom unit available as yet....

Early L322's had problems with water ingress into the electronics bay at the rear N/S corner and the Steering Wheel adjustment motors - one clamp snaps and the other fouls up and locks solid....

Take one for a drive and you'll be smitten compared to the P38, but don't buy with your heart....