Violent Shuddering at speed

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swapping wheels about wont hide/cure a out of shape tyre, they all might appear good inspecting visually.out of wheel balance shows about 54mph upwards & can be as we call driven through maybe calming down at higher speeds,a out of shape tyre/case starts twitching the vehicle at speeds as low as 5-10 mph, tyre impact/bad puncture repair/faulty suspension can all cause this, get them checked on a proper balancer. one of my balancers will detect a micro problem with a wheel rim/tyre its that clever .
 
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wil2813 said:
swapping wheels about wont hide/cure a out of shape tyre, they all might appear good inspecting visually.out of wheel balance shows about 54mph upwards & can be as we call driven through maybe calming down at higher speeds,a out of shape tyre/case starts twitching the vehicle at speeds as low as 5-10 mph, tyre impact/bad puncture repair/faulty suspension can all cause this, get them checked on a proper balancer. one of my balancers will detect a micro problem with a wheel rim/tyre its that clever .
Click to expand...

The only thing is that the nearside rear tyre (3000 mile old Pirelli) tore itself apart at around 60-70 MPH and I didn't even notice it inside the car, there was a little noise that I thought odd, but no effect on the vehicle. A young lady flagged me down otherwise I wouldn't have known, I was amazed at the cars stability on three wheels!!

Honestly, this is so extreme that I just can't imagine tyres doing this, I lost a front tyre on my discovery in France and it was nothing like the massive shuddering I experience with this problem, whatever the hell it is

I am dropping it back to the garage to let them look into it further.

The only other thing I was thinking of doing was rigging a go pro under the car and initiating the problem and viewing the results

Thanks for the suggestions
 
AP90 said:
The only other thing I was thinking of doing was rigging a go pro under the car and initiating the problem and viewing the results
Thanks for the suggestions
Click to expand...

or get someone to follow you, possibly with a dashcam, and watch.
 
you said it cleared up for a while when you had the ball joints replaced? could the have failed again? did they align the hub when they were fitted?
i asked my local landy independent so called expert about aligning the hub he looked at me puzzled "we don't bother with that" ..... walking away.....
 
danb79 said:
you said it cleared up for a while when you had the ball joints replaced? could the have failed again? did they align the hub when they were fitted?
i asked my local landy independent so called expert about aligning the hub he looked at me puzzled "we don't bother with that" ..... walking away.....
Click to expand...

Hard to say, I will mention it when I drop it off, they seem to know their beans and the owner of the Garage does trans African trips in Land Rovers for expeditions.

The ball joints were part of the issue, but I must admit I couldn't see how they would cause this problem, I asked them to be done as part of the elimination process.

Given the knowledge on this forum and Range Rovers .net their seems to be no definitive answer

On the RR.net site there have been a number of incidents like this but the threads seem inconclusive or cure by something I have already fixed.......

But thank you, I will check with them
 
I replaced 2 'perfect' tyres on my RR because I had quite a bad vibration.shudder above 50 ish to the point the passenger seat would be wobbling quite badly if no-one was sat in it.

New tyres, no vibration!
 
domino said:
I replaced 2 'perfect' tyres on my RR because I had quite a bad vibration.shudder above 50 ish to the point the passenger seat would be wobbling quite badly if no-one was sat in it.

New tyres, no vibration!
Click to expand...

The trouble is the seat used to wobble before I changed out the part worn tyres that I got with the new hurricane wheels I fitted (the car came with RRS or L322 big wheels), then I changed to pirellis all round to match what was on the spare hurricane in the well.

I then did many miles up and down the country but with wobbly seat http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/f10/mystery-wobble-272636.html

But I have never experienced anything like this, I am not comfortable on the motorway with this car, it is akin to driving down the motorway waiting for an IED to go off........ with apologies to any serving members or with family members.

Also I can't face or to be honest afford, to shell out another £600 for new tyres all round
 
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AP90 said:
The only thing is that the nearside rear tyre (3000 mile old Pirelli) tore itself apart at around 60-70 MPH and I didn't even notice it inside the car, there was a little noise that I thought odd, but no effect on the vehicle. A young lady flagged me down otherwise I wouldn't have known, I was amazed at the cars stability on three wheels!!

Honestly, this is so extreme that I just can't imagine tyres doing this, I lost a front tyre on my discovery in France and it was nothing like the massive shuddering I experience with this problem, whatever the hell it is

I am dropping it back to the garage to let them look into it further.

The only other thing I was thinking of doing was rigging a go pro under the car and initiating the problem and viewing the results

Thanks for the suggestions
Click to expand...

shredding a Pirelli in 3000 miles sounds like serious geometry problems,a friend & member on here ask me to line his 2001 vogue up after inspection it had been hit hard on the n/s/r quarter above/on wheel without his knowledge/repaired tbh I couldn't do nothing with it .first simple step imo would get it all checked on alignment phone around for someone who has a hunter;)

What is a Hunter Wheel Alignment? - YouTube
 
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Not sure why that tyre went, the alignment has been checked by two different companies, I will check if it was a hunter unit.

Wheel bearings all ok.......
 
Just to close this thread and as a possible solution, this post from another forum.

I have changed out the generic steering damper for a quality Bitstein

Seems to be working so far, be very happy if it solves this problem

I had the same problem years ago on my 98SE.

Freeway speed, drive over some uneven section of road and violent shakes, scary, dangerous and embarrassing.
I would describe it as tank slapping, (a motorcycling term for a similar scary thing that happens to riders from time to time)
I changed the suspect steering damper first up, as it was on the way out, but like you, still had the problem, as bad or worse.

After reading the numerous posts here and considering all the different things others have tried, I can only come to one conclusion:

The inherent design of our truck's front end is such that, with a particular combination of wheels, tyres, toe in, shock absorbers, and steering box adjustments, there is a natural resonance , which at a certain critical speed the front end can be set off like a bell ringing. Set off by a disturbance, a bump.
Once it starts, it just self excites and keeps going, until you get away from that critical speed.
You can be fortunate, in that for your car, the critical speed for resonance is so high you never reach it.
Others are not so lucky.
Changing components can change the resonant point so much, that it no longer is an issue, or if the components you change have basically the same characteristics, the problem remains.

As with all resonance circuits, a good damper can kill the vibrations or prevent them from starting up.
Some cars will have the problem worse than others of course, and then even a good damper may not help.
All of the above is just my theory of course!

Did you change the steering damper with a genuine one or an aftermarket one?

Why I ask is because after a lot of checks, similar to what you had done, for some mysterious reason, I decided to pull out the new damper and check it on the bench.
It was an aftermarket one, from the UK, (I am in Australia).

The damping was good and firm in both directions but when I applied small back and forth movements rapidly, there was a small amount of movement possible which was not damped at all. About 10mm to 15mm.

That was enough for me. I bit the bullet and purchased a genuine article, at about twice the price.
That was one of the best decisions I have ever made,.
After installing it, no more violent shakes, ever!

I know that it does not fix the underlying cause, but bear witness to the many who have effectively had to change the whole front end to get a result.

My problem may have been different to yours of course, but, I have done over 100,000k now since fitting the new genuine steering damper, and no more death wobbles, even once.

Good luck and cheers.
 
The damper story i can buy together with neglected steering and suspension components. But no toe in on a P38. Parallel to 1/16" out is the setting. :);)
 
I think tyres have a big impact on this, on Goodyear Wranglers, my P38 tramlined and had the occasional shimmy on the steering despite all being in good order. On Nexen Rodieans, even with a very loose joint on the track rod it is totally stable with no tramlining. With the amount of play I found in the track rod before the MOT, it would have been quite a handfull on the Goodyears.
 
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