Turbo Hippo: Torque considerations

Hi guys,

MHM found a guy on a forum somewhere who had bought a 220T freelander and apparently it was lovely. That got me thinking about this possible engine transplant when my Hippo is no longer grounded (no more mods until 5000 trouble free cooling miles.)

We had some really great ideas on this thread:

http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/f9/facelifted-facelift-208823.html

I just wanted to continue the discussion with interested parties. The main problem I am coming up against is the PG1 box and it's max torque handling. Nodge mentioned something about the IRD mitigating strain but I couldn't get my head around it - perhaps if you're reading you could elaborate mate?

The 220T is a great engine for sure, but again the PG1 is the limitation - plus how would you mount the lower IRD bracket to it? The 1.8T would be a dead easy drop in and I could just use the FL's sump with the threads in it.

As far as I can tell the standard PG1 is good for about 160ftlbs, which is the max output of the standard 1.8T engine (sauce.) However Mark at Z and F tuning can do a 190bhp/199ftlb map which would be friggin sweet if we could get it through the box wifout breaking it! That'd be 300tdi power!!!

So, what considerations are due to the PG1 and IRD/ Diff? Would I use the same gear set but with steel caged bearings or a different gear set? Anything else?

What I'd like to do is to start putting together a solid plan and shopping list so that I can start by buying a £60 box off ebay for rebuild. Then I can move on to the lump if that works out.

But seeing as ultimately the limiting factor is the box and not the engine I see the 1.8T as more attractive than the 220T as it's an easier drop in. If the EWP works out after a few thousand miles then I will be less concerned about the fact that it's still a K series.

So where shall we start?

buy a v6

buy a v8

Hippo said:

buy a v6

Click to expand...

Not a bad idea at all for thems that aren't mad spanner monkeys like me who just can't stop.

What if I want more power and better fuel efficiency ? KV6 does 177 ftlbs which is respectable but let's see if we can go even higher !

maybe yu ought to know that the T220 uses the PG1 box. in 2wd the T220 can also use the Thorsen LSD.

drivetrains break more frequently if engines are underpowered rather than overpowered so put some faith in the 220T

The Mad Hat Man said:

maybe yu ought to know that the T220 uses the PG1 box. in 2wd the T220 can also use the Thorsen LSD.

Click to expand...

Yes mate I know , the 220 was eletrically limited giving it a nice flat torque curve because the PG1 couldn't handle it all - but so far there has been nothing to tell me that it would be straightforward to keep the 4x4 system like it would be with the 1.8T. It's a bombproof engine by all accounts, but no one really seems to have a real plan for fitting one on other forums.

The main issue here is how much torque can I put through a K series PG1 and what upgrades can I do to help that number?

why bother?

buy a defender or disco

it's too difficult to do properly and it weren't designed to take the extra horse power.

Freelaner said:

why bother?

buy a defender or disco

it's too difficult to do properly and it weren't designed to take the extra horse power.

Click to expand...

I can see your point mate, and I'm not dead set on doing it just assesing feasibility . The 220 sound like a bitch to fit outside of a 2wd situation, but it's looking like a standard 1.8T could be fitted sans drama on a standard box - only problem with that is that it offer nothing above the V6 in terms of power. So it's got to be all or nothing in my view - the results need to be worth the effort .

Mostly my mind is wandering because my Freelander is still sitting on a drive 150 miles away and there's #### all I can do about it. This is my way of channeling that frustration into constructive thought .

you are aware of the awesome tuning possibilities of the k-series engine aren't you?

Freelaner said:

you are aware of the awesome tuning possibilities of the k-series engine aren't you?

Click to expand...

Yes but they are very expensive, cams forged pistons etc. Also it's not the engine that's the issue, like I said it's the gearbox. Currently the box that's in there couldn't handle more than 150-160ftlbs so until you deal with that limitation it's almost pointless to cinsider engine tuning . The V6 has a different gearbox so doesn't have this problem.

pretty sure it''s been discussed at some length previously

summat about making a frankengearbox that will take the load etc....

if your handy wiv a spanner and have the time...crack on

are yu aware of the awesome tuning potential of the T220? up to 600BHP!

and don't care neither, mine dunt have one of them sat in it

The Mad Hat Man said:

are yu aware of the awesome tuning potential of the T220? up to 600BHP!

Click to expand...

Yes, but, again, the gearbox.....

I don't want a 600bhp Freelander - DD is building one of those ! I want one with a bit more grunt so that when I'm in 5th and put my foot down to get past a drunken Polish truck driver, I'll be ahead of him BEFORE he gets back to Poland.

The 190 BHP setup would be just right for me, just need to make sure that the gearbox can take the 200ftlb's of torque.If this guys is to be believed (from RoverTech forums) then it really doesn't need to be that hard:

"I have personally put 320 ft/lb of torque through a rebuilt and steel caged NASP spec PG1 box (the weakest of the three), and run it as a daily driver for several thousand miles without any problems. But I was considerate in how I treated it (no dropping the clutch and drag style starts)."

just because yu can doesnt mean that yu have to

it's not big and it's not clever

The Mad Hat Man said:

just because yu can doesnt mean that yu have to

Click to expand...

There's truth in that. When I get it back here and sorted out then I'm hoping to just enjoy it for a few months without any more mods. Actually get some light laning in and such.

Maybe I should save the money for a S3/Defender restoration ?

Why don't you simply fit your 1.8T engine to the gearbox you have and see how long it lasts? If you don't drop the clutch to often it would be ok for some time. Remember a turbo engine produces no more torque than a Nasp until the turbo has spooled which will ease the power in anyhow. This would give you enough time to make a better box while using the car.

3.5 efi said:

buy a v8

Click to expand...

v6 has betterer power to weight ratio, engine fitted the correct way round to mate to Freelander transmission and you can already pick them up as standard cheaply, for starters.

WLJayne said:

Not a bad idea at all for thems that aren't mad spanner monkeys like me who just can't stop.

What if I want more power and better fuel efficiency ? KV6 does 177 ftlbs which is respectable but let's see if we can go even higher !

Click to expand...

The v6 will give you 0-60mph times of 10 seconds. This is the fastest standard production FL1 available. Thats what the old 1.8 zetec focus did, as a comparison. Putting aside the bollox of synergy modded diesels doing 60mpg at 150mph with v6 accelleration all at the same time... The v6 is the easiest option and saves you messing about. You don't have to spend hundreds of hours fitting non standard engines/electronics and you can pick them up cheap. Try explaining the change of engine to your insurance. If you need power then a v6 will eat it's gearbox if you drive it like you've stole it. Thats just goes to show how much power it has. Whatever you do you'll also need to plan for regular breakdowns if you choose to use the power as it'll cause more wear and tear.