Transmission rubbing/juddering

Hi there,
I am struggling to know how best to describe the issue I am experiencing but am hoping you good people will be able to understand.

I have a 2005 RR L322 TD6 3.0 d auto.

I have only had it a few weeks and I'm working (slowly) through the various faults it has. When moving in and out of my workshop it gives out a noise that I can only describe as "rubbing" coming from underneath, if I had to be more precise I would say left hand rear. Along with the noise the vehicle feels like it is being prevented moving until after a couple of metres the vehicle will lunge forward as if whatever is impeding the vehicle has been momentarily removed and then this will symptom will slowly start to build up again.
When I first encountered this it reminded me of the situation caused by the transmission brake of a LR being stuck on/binding however none of the brakes are binding on my L322, I've checked to the point of actually removing the handbrake linings just "in case".
To further complicate things if I try to drive aggressively, say to overcome the slight slope I have then the DSC light comes on, the engine power goes to nothing so I'm not sure if the DSC is part of the issue or is reacting to the fault?
I have put the vehicle up on a wheel free and driven it. There is no noise at this point but the LHR wheel will not rotate unless assisted and even holding the RHR wheel and spinning the LHR, it winds down to a halt.

This really has me scratching my head, I don't even know if I'm being distracted by some red herrings. I did even start to think the fault was actually the DSC causing this as a result of just getting over a flat battery but as the EAS, HDC, Hi/Lo all started working properly after a full recharge I came away from that thinking.

Has anyone heard of this or a similar situation before and if so could you possibly give me a steer towards ways to diagnose this.

I would appreciate any advice you could offer.

Thanks in advance

SSB655

Hard to discern from the description sorry mate. RRs do send you round the twist from one system to the next, thats normal to feel that way. It’s the way they interlinked everything
A weak point of your vehicle is the transmission as think you would have the GM box as standard. It could be mashed. Have you checked there’s oil in it? What mileage she at, presuming it’s original box?

You could be in some sort of limp mode - remember low volts will throw all sorts of wobblers and red herrings, try giving battery another charge or get it drop tested if it made a difference last time.
Failing that you ideally need to get it read on diagnostics.

Start with battery and diagnostics. If nothing found then go to guess work. Works better than other way round

Not sure how much in the way of heat shield the earlier L322 has.
I have had rubbing noises because they have stones in or have been bent slight by road debris round the rear prop mostly. Cheap thing to look at and check

Doesn't explain your other issue, but thats been covered ^^^^

J

Thanks for the replies gents.

I thought describing the issue may be a problem but in essence it feels like one of the brakes is binding on really badly which produces a rubbing noise. This rubbing and noise lasts for about 10 metres and then binding will quickly release but then start to slowly bind back on. This all happens with neither the brake pedal or lever being touched.

I charged the battery over a couple of days (disconnected from the vehicle), dropped tested the battery then refitted it. After which I rotated steering wheel back and forth and checked for DTC codes, which gave no clues. Hence my confusion.

Hope this makes a bit more sense

Does that vehicle have an Electronic Parking Brake?

DanClarke said:

Does that vehicle have an Electronic Parking Brake?

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No Dan, good old handbrake lever and cables, which are free. The only part that seems to have any drag on it at all is the NSR wheel hub which, when the vehicle is driven on a wheel free ramp does not rotate unless spun by hand and then it slows to a stop, even when the OSR is held stationery.

SSB655 said:

No Dan, good old handbrake lever and cables, which are free. The only part that seems to have any drag on it at all is the NSR wheel hub which, when the vehicle is driven on a wheel free ramp does not rotate unless spun by hand and then it slows to a stop, even when the OSR is held stationery.

Click to expand...

Calliper off next then?

myfirstl322 said:

Calliper off next then?

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And herein lays my enigma.

The handbrake linings are not longer fitted (for test purposes), both rear callipers have been examined for any signs of seizing, none found and the pistons were inserted back into the callipers and both rear flexi hoses were clamped in case the pedal was inadvertently pressed. The front wheels were rechecked for free rotation - all good.

The above are reasons I am beginning to suspect a transmission issue but can't find if:

A) Actual definitive proof I am correct in suspecting a transmission fault
B) If it is a transmission fault, is it mechanically or electronically being induced.

On the good side I am making progress making the hole in my garage for the new window by hammering the wall with my head!

SSB655 said:

And herein lays my enigma.

The handbrake linings are not longer (for test purposes), both rear callipers have been examined for any signs of seizing, none found and the pistons were inserted back into the callipers and both rear flexi hoses were clamped in case the pedal was inadvertently pressed. The front wheels were rechecked for free rotation - all good.

The above are reasons I am beginning to suspect a transmission issue but can't find if:

A) Actual definitive proof I am correct in suspecting a transmission fault
B) If it is a transmission fault, is it mechanically or electronically being induced.

On the good side I am making progress making the hole in my garage for the new window by hammering the wall with my head!

Click to expand...

Ahh, I missed where you said that about callipers, so you are getting the grinding noise with handbrake shoes removed AND callipers retracted...have you since checked IF the callipers have pumped out 'on their own accord'? (presuming you haven't pressed the brake pedal at all)

myfirstl322 said:

...have you since checked IF the callipers have pumped out 'on their own accord'? (presuming you haven't pressed the brake pedal at all)

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Yeah, I clamped the flexi hoses so even if I did press the pedal, which I didn't, there would be no pressure on the calliper piston. And I re-checked the wheels were free to rotate after and the pistons hadn't moved. In fact during one of the tests I even went as far as removing the NSR calliper and carrier assembly and secured it away from moving parts.

SSB655 said:

Yeah, I clamped the flexi hoses so even if I did press the pedal, which I didn't, there would be no pressure on the calliper piston. And I re-checked the wheels were free to rotate after and the pistons hadn't moved. In fact during one of the tests I even went as far as removing the NSR calliper and carrier assembly and secured it away from moving parts.

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ok,

Have you determined whether the CV drive shaft feels connected to the hub/disc assy,
I'm just wondering if it's a CV joint thats given up.

I once fitted a new autobox to a FWD car and one of the shafts became disengaged from the splines of the CV joint. it made a horrible grating noise and no motion when in D, but it was 2wd, not 4.

myfirstl322 said:

ok,

Have you determined whether the CV drive shaft feels connected to the hub/disc assy,
I'm just wondering if it's a CV joint thats given up.

I once fitted a new autobox to a FWD car and one of the shafts became disengaged from the splines of the CV joint. it made a horrible grating noise and no motion when in D, but it was 2wd, not 4.

Click to expand...

That's a fair point, thank you. I have proved the OSR driveshaft is good through removal during another job and changing outer CV joint. BUT I haven't definitively proved serviceability of NSR CV joints.

Just thinking this through; if NSR inner CV joint splines were unserviceable would the drive not be lost between rear diff output and the CV joint resulting in no drive at all or would some drive be split to the front end. I'm not trying to counter your point, I'm merely trying to get it clear in my head until I get a chance to look at this later this week.

Thanks again for raising this point.

SSB655 said:

That's a fair point, thank you. I have proved the OSR driveshaft is good through removal during another job and changing outer CV joint. BUT I haven't definitively proved serviceability of NSR CV joints.

Just thinking this through; if NSR inner CV joint splines were unserviceable would the drive not be lost between rear diff output and the CV joint resulting in no drive at all or would some drive be split to the front end. I'm not trying to counter your point, I'm merely trying to get it clear in my head until I get a chance to look at this later this week.

Thanks again for raising this point.

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I'd think you'd still have drive to the front even if a rear shaft was bust.

I assume it drove ok when you purchased it?

Also, a leading question...have you had the N/S/R shaft disconnected in your short ownership?

SSB655 said:

I have put the vehicle up on a wheel free and driven it. There is no noise at this point but the LHR wheel will not rotate unless assisted and even holding the RHR wheel and spinning the LHR, it winds down to a halt.

Click to expand...

SSB655 said:

The above are reasons I am beginning to suspect a transmission issue but can't find if:

A) Actual definitive proof I am correct in suspecting a transmission fault
B) If it is a transmission fault, is it mechanically or electronically being induced.

Click to expand...

myfirstl322 said:

Have you determined whether the CV drive shaft feels connected to the hub/disc assy,
I'm just wondering if it's a CV joint thats given up.

Click to expand...

If 1 wheel is not connected to the drive line. It will not drive. As the 322 has no independent center diff lock , the electronic control needs wheel speeds to control it, As far as I know

So maybe something is dragging on the LHR?

Lets go back a few post and get the codes for a start.

J

marjon said:

Lets go back a few post and get the codes for a start.

J

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Unfortunately mate, there are no codes for me to fault find from.

I have had an OBD reader on it but the only code that came up was one referring to EAS, I cleared the DTC and the suspension started working again and the code didn't reappear. As this was just after reconnecting the battery I put that down to the flat battery. The lack of electronic analytic evidence is a large reason for me suspecting a mechanical issue over an electronic one.

SSB655 said:

Unfortunately mate, there are no codes for me to fault find from.

I have had an OBD reader on it but the only code that came up was one referring to EAS, I cleared the DTC and the suspension started working again and the code didn't reappear. As this was just after reconnecting the battery I put that down to the flat battery. The lack of electronic analytic evidence is a large reason for me suspecting a mechanical issue over an electronic one.

Click to expand...

What was used to read, the L322 is a fussy bugger.

J

marjon said:

What was used to read, the L322 is a fussy bugger.

J

Click to expand...

I use an Autel MD802. It seems to work fine on the various systems of the L322. It gives live readings as well as DTC.

UPDATE:
Against my earlier suspicions I can confirm this is definitely an electronic fault!

I've resolved all the other issues (not associated to this topic) that this RR had and took it for a road test tonight. The symptoms I am experiencing prevented me from even getting up to 15 mph and the DSC light was flashing. Just to get moving I turned the DSC off and the performance picked up. It wasn't perfect but 80% better. Then after a couple of hundred meters the dash lit up; the ABS light HDC light, brake warning light came on. The HDC inop and EAS inop warnings came up BUT the vehicle drove 100%.

When I got back I plugged in the OBD reader and the ABS system showed a "toothed wheel error" which I was allowed to clear. There was a DTC in the air suspension system "Can Bus Fault" which I couldn't clear. And obviously nothing happened if I operated the HDC or EAS switches.

When I got out of the vehicle the air suspension started operating off its own accord and the dash warning lights all went out and the vehicle went back to its original symptom.

I carried out a Live Data test on the ABS system the RHR was showing about double the value of the other 3. I have recently replaced the outer CV joint on the RHR so I rechecked it and it all looks in order. The sensor was replaced by the previous owner immediately prior to me getting the vehicle.
I went through all this again and the same thing happened, resulting with when I opened the door again the air suspension operating and the dash reset itself.
Without changing the CV joint again, just to check, has anybody got any suggestions where I go next? Could someone confirm that there is 48 slots in the exciter ring for the L322 TD6? I did compare the new CV joint with the old unit but didn't go as far to count the gaps in the ring.

Any help would be great,

Cheers,

SSB

Iv had the exact same symptoms when my rear right abs sensor was dying

Iv had abs sensors die and before they did they would try pulsing the brake then let it free off.

A quick try would be too unplug the faulty sensor and let the abs lights and air susp fault come on.

If it will let you drive without it applying brakes then change the sensor,

Rings expand with rust so if it shows signs of rubbing on the abs sensor use a washer under the bolt hole to pack it out a mm.

Abs sensors on the bmw versions carry out two start up tests one for a complete signal on the circuit and then for reading the teeth,

But is doesn't guarantee that the sensors are 100%

You might have too count the ring teeth and position but i had all the same with a bad abs sensor

Also on a side note if someones tried an x5 sensor as a cheep ebay fix they dont work and report the wrong speeds too

(Ask me and my pal with an x5 that had new sensors in a box the day mine died)