TD5 woes - any bright ideas?

Left the battery to charge for an hour or two and then went out to check a few more things. The resistance of the entire vehicle electrical system with the ignition off is 1.5 ohms, which seems a bit low and might explain where all my electricity has gone. Disconnecting things and pulling fuses whilst monitoring resistance narrowed the search down to a fuse under the drivers seat with a picture of a snowflake next to it. Taking that out puts the resistance back up to something sensible. Interestingly, pulling the corresponding aircon fuses out of the bulkhead fuse box doesn't increase the resistance. I think I may have a short somewhere in my brown and pink wire. Everything continues to disintegrate around me. One of my meters is now fubared too.

ratty said:

When the fuel pump is priming does it sound normal or does it sound louder or whiney?

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I'm usually quite attentive to the melody from the fuel pump. It hasn't changed much lately. Around 18 months ago it was so noisy I was carrying a spare with me on long journeys just in case, but it's quietened down since then. Obviously, I've had a bit of air noise when purging after having had filters off, pipes off, injectors out etc. but nothing unusual.

I've been looking at the wiring again. The under seat fuse that is responsible for the current drain clearly controls a good deal more than the air conditioning as the labelling implies. Without it, the Nanocom doesn't work and the interior light doesn't come on (and probably a lot of other things besides, but those are the obvious ones). I've started doing some dismantling to trace the wire but the daylight is going. I'll have to leave it for a bit now as I need to be busy with some other stuff over the weekend. This is going to be a long haul by the looks of things. . . .

i am led to believe, if you do not have a good amp-age for cranking from the battery, a TD5 will not start, turns over but will not fire if the battery is week! when i did my seals and washers, did it to the book, everything clean etc, drove it 15miles and stopped, recovered it home, did it all again, perfect, but the next thing fuel pump went, changed that been ok since!

If your copper washers had signs of carbon on them there is a good chance the fuel pump gauze will be partially blocked.

Check the engine speed is showing when cranking too.

I've just had fun and games after my fuel pressure regulator started leaking all over my crank sensor wiring causing it to go brittle. I changed the pressure regulator, replaced the crank sensor wiring and fitted a new crank sensor but it still wasn't reading the revs properly when cranking over. I've just changed the starter motor and all is well again. Mine would only start if bumped or started on carburettor cleaner/East start.

When I had the Naonocom in yesterday it was showing in excess of 12v, and the day before that it was on charge for several hours. The battery flattening has happened overnight, so I need to work out what's happening to all my electricity. I checked all the wires I'd had out yesterday to see if I'd accidentally pinched or chafed something on reassembly but just looking at it, all seems well. I'll have to trace the brown and pink wire and see where that goes. It's clearly not just the aircon. As above, once I've cured that, I'll start checking for signal at the injectors and if there is one I'll be looking at fuelling again. Might get myself one of those gasket and o ring kits for the FPR and have that off the side of the block and have a look at it. Yes, the Nanocom does register revs (about 260 - 265 or so on the starter) as well as cylinder balances.

'Twill be a few days before I get back on this as I've got to do some other work now, but thanks for the observations gents. I'm hard at work reading about Spirit's recent adventures. Even though everything seems to have broken at once, at least I've not destroyed my car and am not facing D&D charges.

I had same prob on td5 put a starter on it and was spot on starter was drawing too many amps try it what u gotta loose 🔨🔨

GATSO said:

I had same prob on td5 put a starter on it and was spot on starter was drawing too many amps try it what u gotta loose ����

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Thanks. Been busy with work the past few days so haven't had a chance to get out and work on the car. Maybe I'll get another session on it this coming week and try a few more things.

Have yet you tried bump starting it

ratty said:

If your copper washers had signs of carbon on them there is a good chance the fuel pump gauze will be partially blocked.

Check the engine speed is showing when cranking too.

I've just had fun and games after my fuel pressure regulator started leaking all over my crank sensor wiring causing it to go brittle. I changed the pressure regulator, replaced the crank sensor wiring and fitted a new crank sensor but it still wasn't reading the revs properly when cranking over. I've just changed the starter motor and all is well again. Mine would only start if bumped or started on carburettor cleaner/East start.

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There is a fault that can happen on TD5's, the starter gives of excessive EMF and this interferes with the crank signal. the signal is an AC signal and is corrupted by the starter EMF hence why you can bump start ok. The OP had his engine cut out whilst driving so I doubt this is the issue.

The Brown and Pink wire under the seat box goes from the maxi fuse 2 too the satellite fuse box then through fuses 28 to 32 it feeds the blower motor, AC fan, Radio cassette, Hazard switch and rear screen relay in that order,

Thanks for the ideas folks. I've been quiet lately because work has been keeping me occupied and I haven't had time to tinker with the Land Rover. However, I got out to play with it this afternoon. I've checked the electrical signal being delivered to the injectors when the engine is cranked and whilst there is one it's tiny - just a few millivolts. This is just with a digital multimeter switched to detect AC, but it seems a bit small?? I can get a signal like that by holding the electrodes in my hands too! Might be because I'm using a meter rather than an oscilloscope.

The Nanocom shows me rpm and cylinder balance values, so I think we're getting a decent signal from the crank position sensor. Yes I'm aware that the starter can interfere with it so its on my radar, but I'm still thinking about immobiliser wiring loom problems, especially as it cut out while I was driving and the starter wasn't operating at the time.

owl said:

The Brown and Pink wire under the seat box goes from the maxi fuse 2 too the satellite fuse box then through fuses 28 to 32 it feeds the blower motor, AC fan, Radio cassette, Hazard switch and rear screen relay in that order,

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Yup, I've been trying to follow it. In my case it feeds the instruments (disconnect it and it stops the clock and the odometer goes out) and the diagnostic socket too. Hmm. looks like a bit more unravelling is needed. With such a big short you'd think you'd see smoke coming out somewhere, but there's none visible.

Anyway that's as far as I got this afternoon before it got dark.

It's a long time since I tested a TD5 CKP but as I remember cranking voltage was around 1 volt.

Brown said:

Thanks for the ideas folks. I've been quiet lately because work has been keeping me occupied and I haven't had time to tinker with the Land Rover. However, I got out to play with it this afternoon. I've checked the electrical signal being delivered to the injectors when the engine is cranked and whilst there is one it's tiny - just a few millivolts. This is just with a digital multimeter switched to detect AC, but it seems a bit small?? I can get a signal like that by holding the electrodes in my hands too! Might be because I'm using a meter rather than an oscilloscope.

The Nanocom shows me rpm and cylinder balance values, so I think we're getting a decent signal from the crank position sensor. Yes I'm aware that the starter can interfere with it so its on my radar, but I'm still thinking about immobiliser wiring loom problems, especially as it cut out while I was driving and the starter wasn't operating at the time.



Yup, I've been trying to follow it. In my case it feeds the instruments (disconnect it and it stops the clock and the odometer goes out) and the diagnostic socket too. Hmm. looks like a bit more unravelling is needed. With such a big short you'd think you'd see smoke coming out somewhere, but there's none visible.

Anyway that's as far as I got this afternoon before it got dark.

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Not on AC.
The injectors on a td5 have 2 feed wires...80v I think...the switching is done on the injector earths so youll have a job seeing it switch with a multimeter.

If your getting rpm, which you are? I saw some where your rpms look good so your crank sensor is fine.

All you need is a crank sensor so dont bother with the rest....it'll start with just a crank sensor EDIT AGAIN....test on AC 1.5v at cranking is more than enough.

Everyone always shouts fuel pressure with a td5 but thats still not that critical to get it started. To be sure get a guage...stick it in the feed to the fuel rail....nothing complicated just an inline gauge will do...you should have close to 4bar/60psi with ign on. EDIT though it'll go with less

pcm might? does on a disco, need the body module to send a signal to pcm before it will start....crank but no fire up without the correct signal.
Nanocom might check this....the other cheapies wont. see if bcm is synced to pcm.

if you have sync, fuel pressure, and crank signal....and it cranks at 250rpm but does not fire and all your injector wiring tests ok........fit a pcm

EeEk said:

Not on AC.
The injectors on a td5 have 2 feed wires...80v I think...the switching is done on the injector earths so youll have a job seeing it switch with a multimeter.

If your getting rpm, which you are? I saw some where your rpms look good so your crank sensor is fine.

All you need is a crank sensor so dont bother with the rest....it'll start with just a crank sensor EDIT AGAIN....test on AC 1.5v at cranking is more than enough.

Everyone always shouts fuel pressure with a td5 but thats still not that critical to get it started. To be sure get a guage...stick it in the feed to the fuel rail....nothing complicated just an inline gauge will do...you should have close to 4bar/60psi with ign on. EDIT though it'll go with less

pcm might? does on a disco, need the body module to send a signal to pcm before it will start....crank but no fire up without the correct signal.
Nanocom might check this....the other cheapies wont. see if bcm is synced to pcm.

if you have sync, fuel pressure, and crank signal....and it cranks at 250rpm but does not fire and all your injector wiring tests ok........fit a pcm

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Some interesting ideas there. All I have to hand is a meter so that's what I was looking at to see if anything was getting through to the injectors. Even so, as far as the meter can tell, there's not much getting through, both between the terminals and the between the terminals and the engine block. You'd think that if there was 80v you'd see the numbers kick up a bit on the meter although of course it is not the ideal tool for the job.

Yup, I'm reasonably sure of my crank position sensor (RPM and cylinder balance coming through loud and clear). In fact I now have three to choose from.

My Defender is very basic and doesn't have ABS or a body control module.
Re fuel pressure - yes I've noticed this too. Once started, you can unplug the fuel pump and it'll keep going. Or at least it would back in the days when it would start.

Unfortunately, I've had to give up, as work commitments are getting in the way and won't ease up anytime soon. So I've conceded defeat and handed it over to a garage to look at. I shall feel so stupid if it's something obvious I've overlooked.

I haven't looked in here for ages because it's taken a while to sort all the problems out, and with all the frustration I haven't felt very Land Rovery. Finally though, I'm mobile again and the Land Rover seems to be trustworthy as I've been around the Midlands in it going to meetings etc. over the past few days and finally it has been behaving itself.

Electrically, it has more or less been gutted. The garage Autologic machine disclosed the dreaded topisde switch error (hadn't shown up on the Nanocom) so I've had a new ECU. I've also had a new wiring loom; the one that goes from the red plug to the various engine components and elsewhere. I knew the old one was in poor condition, having been butchered by the previous owners at Swansea Power Station and having yielded faults before. I'd been thinking about a new one anyway, so it seemed like a good idea. I've had a new alarm immobiliser. The man who fitted it, although Thatcham registered, seemed to have disappeared, so we just took it out and got a new one. Finally, it's had a new fuel pump. The previous one was a really cheap item that I fitted around two years ago. I've been thinking about getting a better one and the garage said it wasn't delivering 60 psi so it seemed like a good time to swap for a better VDO unit.

So a combination of problems. Those of you who suggested immobiliser faults were on to something, but there were also wiring loom short outs, low fuel pressure and an intermittent ECU fault that the Nanocom wasn't able to tell me about.

I'm somewhat poorer but now have a working Land Rover again. As you might recall, it's had various repairs whilst I was looking at it too, like injector seals and washers, new fuel filter head and a few other things, so it's quite sprightly now. I was having to be carful of my speed on the motorway yesterday as it was creeping up.

Time for a trip to Wales this weekend to see how my limited slip diffs work, which I fitted before Christmas but haven't really had a chance to enjoy yet.

Great to see the update and solution/s ...if a bit expensive.....

I have a 2000 TD5 so collect thoughts on what is going to fail, and where to find the freds when (not if...) it happens.

Got a list of water pump and many window seals and footwell panels at present, so hope the electrics hold out a bit longer. Cheers, A

agew said:

Great to see the update and solution/s ...if a bit expensive.....

I have a 2000 TD5 so collect thoughts on what is going to fail, and where to find the freds when (not if...) it happens.

Got a list of water pump and many window seals and footwell panels at present, so hope the electrics hold out a bit longer. Cheers, A

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Ah well, at least with window seals, footwell panels and water pump, they're fairly easy to see. I think the difficulty comes when faults (especially electrical ones) are intermittent and don't necessarily leave traces that fault code readers can see. For example the garage told me they'd tried my ECU in another vehicle and it would run for a few minutes and then cut out, then if they left it for a while it might be possible to restart, but would only run for a few minutes etc. Not having a whole spare Land Rover to hand to swap things like that into means that I'm at a disadvantage. The more structural and mechanical jobs by comparison are mostly great fun to do at home if you like working with your hands.

Still going strong after a couple of days motoring in Wales. It's really flying along. Maybe the new pump is delivering at full pressure so the injectors are picking up a full charge. Hills that I was chugging up a few weeks ago can now be flown up in third. I now have an oil leak but I'm pretty certain it's getting out round the rocker cover. I shall pop it off and stick it down with sealant. There's a small weep around the tank seal where the pump goes in when the tank is full, but not really enough to make to worth bothering to take it off and seal it down. The garage man is a bit of a purist and feels that instant gasket is a bodge whereas I slather it on by the bucketful.