swapping tyres round

hiya

im still having the nightmare of trying to cure the steering wheel vibration and droning from the front of my freelander

ive got new tyres on the rear and the part woen ones on the front.

would it hurt if i swapped them around by putting the new ones on the front and the fronts on the back please.

trying to see if i can stop this noise, ive had all the wheels balanced and all four wheels balanced.

checked the centre vcu and cannot see any wear in the supporting bearings, no pay in the front wheel bearings.

i did hear about it could be a tyre or wheel problem, its driving my nuts, it only happens around 50 mph no noise or vibration above or below that speed.

been also told by a land rover dealer that if it was a cvu/ird/wheel bearings etc the noise would be there all the time and i wouldnt be able to drive through it.

the strange thing is that its been fine for about a month or so and cam eon suddenly.

tried reversing on full lock and got no resisitance etc.

if i got all the wheels swapped round how do i measure the difference from the fronts and back, is is from the floor to the wheelarch, what is the maximum difference that is ok without causing damage to the vcu, as im thinking in advance if by swapping all the tyres round it cures the pronelm if i can leave the new tyres on the front or not or would i have to go out and buy another 2 new tyres

thanks in advance as always just dont want to prematutly cause further issues or damage

all the best

gary

The only time I would risk putting new tyres on the front and worn on the rear is when the prop and VCU had been removed.

You say you have balanced the tires, but have you checked the tracking as well?

Even if you have, it's worth doing it in a different shop. When I changed tires, it took 3 hours to do it correctly on mine. Since then no vibration at speed whatsoever.

Borrow somebody elses wheels and try em. If that stops the problem you know what it is.
This is, of course, if you have a friendly Freelander near you!

BTW I am friendly, but i'm also nowhere near you!

You asked about the tolerances between tyres and I'm 99% that they should be within 5mm rolling radius front to rear. With a VCU based transmission it's always important to keep tyre diameters as close as possible. At least that's how I've always nderstood it

When we bought ours it had 2 quite worn fronts and 2 different makes on the rear and a bit of vibration & wobble at the steering wheel. We put a new matched set all round (Marshall 195 80 15) and there's now no wobble at the steering wheel at all.

Could be worse - VW used to specify a 2mm tyre tolerance on the T3 Synco

RED 109 CSW said:

You asked about the tolerances between tyres and I'm 99% that they should be within 5mm rolling radius front to rear. With a VCU based transmission it's always important to keep tyre diameters as close as possible. At least that's how I've always nderstood it

When we bought ours it had 2 quite worn fronts and 2 different makes on the rear and a bit of vibration & wobble at the steering wheel. We put a new matched set all round (Marshall 195 80 15) and there's now no wobble at the steering wheel at all.

Could be worse - VW used to specify a 2mm tyre tolerance on the T3 Synco

Click to expand...

You are right on the tyre size difference. There is alot about tyre size differences messing uo your freelder. Hippo is the man on the if you want personnel help then just PM him with your qestion , and he will respond but be patient as he's a had working man

Could it be a buckled wheel?

jamie freelander sport said:

could it be a buckled wheel?

Click to expand...

no

hiya

sorry didnt reply earlier as i didnt get any notice via email will check my settings

regarding my tyres,i was just going to swap them round and by the sounds of it will only try it up the road to see if the vibrating wheel goes.

ive had them balanced and tracked twice by 2 x different garages, had all four wheels done.

i think by the sounds of it and with the sound advice if i start by just swapping my tyres round and then go from there and eliminate things one step at a time, just frustrating that one day it was fine and then the next the vibrating was there.

really appreciate your help and will report back so that it may help others in a similar situation

thanks again

all the best

gary

Personally, I don't think swapping miss-matched wheels & tyres from one corner to the other will help you identify anything

Good luck though and I hope it turns out to be an easily fixable problem

i had same problem but vibration and droning noise happened bang on 70 mph turned out it was a goosed engine mounting near side hope this helps.

goosed driveshaft can also give you this problem

Don't go putting tyres on the front with deeper thread than the rears, or you'll fek something. Either the rear diff ro/and the ird. Chuck in a new vcu too.

If your really sure it's wheel/tyre problems, then how about borrowing someones wheels/tyres for a few miles to see if the problem goes away. Then put yours back.

Is the vibration proportunal to speed or engine revs. Does it do it more when cornering, at speed, when slowing down, or when theres a durdy tratter near by?

Have you checked the wheel bearings?

hiya

thanks for the advice, ive spent quiet a while being very careful trying to pin this vibration etc down.

when the garages have checked the bearings they advised me there was no play in them.

what i was going to do is to go down halfords etc and buy myself a high lift capacity trolley jack and some axles stands and see if i can mange to get the front wheel off myself, have a look and see if there are any signs of wear and tear ie, on any bushes etc,

the spare wheel use to be on the front so was going to now thanks for the advice about not putting new tyres on the front put the spare on the front then try it up the road, if not then try the other one then go from there.

im afraid i dont know anyone with spare tyres, ive asked around if a garage would do this for me to try the spare on the front etc and they want £40,00 and im not prepared to pay this, it may take me a while but if im careful and take my time i should be able to get the tyres on and off.

i know by the sounds of it there are many things that can cause this so i thought that if i start bit by bit and work my way through it hopefully i can sort this out.

it vibrates quite badley at 50 mph if i drive slower or faster than that it stops, it doesnt make any difference what revs im at and tried it in sports etc.

corning etc doesnt seem to make any difference and havent heard any knocks etc

will measure the tyres to see what the difference is as i certainley dont wish to mess up anything else on the car.

just dont want to drive it round much without fear of causing damage

if i may come back to you guys on my findings please im more than happy to do that.

at the same time im going to see if i can top up the ird and final drive oils.

plus are there any grease nipples anywhere on the car please that need to be done annualy

thanks once again for all your great help, hopefully i will be able to sort this out before i loose my mind

my tyres are 215-65-16 bridgestones

all the best

gary

Do you have any 'feedback' through the peddles (classic wheel bearing symptom)?

Does it do it at 50mph if you are out of gear and coasting? I don't k ow where I am going with this but if it does it would point me to wheel balancing or a wheel buckle.

hiya

thanks as always for the replies, i dont seem to be getting replies via email anymore like i useto when somebody replies to a post even after going to advanced settings and selecting instantly advise on new postings ??????

sorry rambling again, i dont get any vibration through my pedals but it does seem to be getting worse, ive got an automatic so didnt wish to put it into neutral in fear of damaging the gearbox.

i do agree that thinking about it it must be something to do with the wheels/tyres as surely if a propshaft,vcu,ird was playing around the vibration would be there all the time.

it starts at 40mph very slightly take it up to 50 and really vibrates though the steering wheel and is noisy through the car

i think this weekend will be the start of trying to resolve

i know i shouldnt put new tyres on the front but would it hurt the car etc if i done about 3-4 mile with this set up to see if the fault went and then put it back or is it a serious no-no from the start.

sorry to be so thick if i need to measure the tyres do i need to measure the diameter or the circumfrance please.

thanks once again guys

gary

Just a thought but do Freelander props ever need balancing? HAd some viration on the Syncro, took the prop to an engineers, got it balanced and perfect.... Only just though of that one but it may well be irrelevant - I'm new to these beasts....

As for wheel sizes, it's the rolling radius you need to measure - the outside around the tread; ie how far it goes forward in one complete rotation.

Hi Gary,
Collect a bit of hard data from the tyres you have fitted and post back.
Check all of your tyre pressures are correct first (pressures as you usually run them).
Jack up each wheel in turn and measure the circumference of each wheel in the centre of the tread using a bit of string/tape (be careful to measure over the outside of the tread pattern - try to avoid the rain channels).
You will have five results (including the spare).
A matched axle pair will be within 6mm of each other and the backs will be the larger circumference pair (we hope?) if they are actually different front to back.
The wrong way round difference front to back is extra work load for the IRD/VCU.
The bigger the difference side to side on the same axle the more the wear in the diff.
The measurement for the spare will let you know if it would match either front or rear axle to make a better matched pairing.
Patience, a length of string or tape and a ruler should get you some useful baseline data.
I have been shown new tyres of the same make, type and size but made in different countries that have different circumferences. (courtesy friendly tyre fitter)

If all the measurements check out then look for uneven tread wear (you could try swapping the axle pair left to right), check sidewalls for distortion etc.
IF you still do not find anything looking a bit odd;
Lots of EX-sperts on ere' happy to help wiv the more exotic stuff, wheel balance, tracking, steering joints, driveshafts and other progressivly more expensive items.