suspension - brake lines

hiya

have now got all my rear suspension bits

however when we looked underneath noticed that the brake lines are corroded and need replacing

really annoyed as this has just been mot'd and there wasnt an advisory

i know he let the spring broken go through but this is really wrong

may i ask have u replaced the brake lines with copper etc, and is there a union near the front of the car as i assume they put the brake lines right up to the abs unit before the engine goes in

now got to also buy a flaring tool, but will i have to get another one to flare the steel pipe unless there is a union

thks so much guys and can u recommend a internet brake service company thats sells all the bits please

is there such a thing as a brake line kit, where all the pipe is pre flared and formed as i would only use the flaring tool once

has anyone bought a complete kit etc please

thks so much

gary

No union, its one piece from the flexi to the abs, easy enough to feed copper through though. What steel pipe would you need to flair? You'll probably want to replace the flexi as well as they don't want to come apart when corroded. The abs unit has two sizes of connections so have the correct one before flairing the pipe.

thks dave, i had a better look and to be honest didnt think i would be able to get the copper pipe from the abs unit to the back in one go

so just thought if i cut the pipe near the engine underneath could then put a union there but would prefer not to and if im able to get it done in once would be alot happier doing so

im a former heating, plumbing engineer and still got my mini bender but noticed some very tight bends on the abs unit

i see there are 6 x pipes and imagine the 2 larger ones are from the master cylinder and the other 4 x going onto the wheels,

may i ask does anyone know what size these are please, including size of nuts , pipe sizes etc and appreciate u saying about replacing flexable hoses to,

will it be in metric or imperial please

when i first read about a brake line kit for £100 thought that would save me buying a flaring tool but then noticed its for the flexable pipes only and not any of the pipework going to the brakes

also seen some of the cheaper flaring tools and was wondering are they any good please

really appreciate ur help with this and seems the list is getting longer but at least ive got the rear suspension now and as always could be worse

once its done though will have all new tyres, new brakes, new rear suspension so should last me a few more years

cheers guys

gary

Just done mines on my td4 easy enough job tbh no pipe bender needed i did however make the passenger side brake pipe in two parts. From abs pump to the fuel tank then joined it from there because it bends round the tank and i couldnt be bothered messing about trying to feed it as one pipe


Mark

mark666freelander said:

Just done mines on my td4 easy enough job tbh no pipe bender needed i did however make the passenger side brake pipe in two parts. From abs pump to the fuel tank then joined it from there because it bends round the tank and i couldnt be bothered messing about trying to feed it as one pipe


Mark

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thks buddy, may i ask what size copper tube did u use please and size of fittings as well please

imagine it was very tight getting from the abs pump to the rear tank position etc, the copper must be quite soft or was it just a question of feeding it through from the back and clipping it back into the original clips

what flaring tool did u use please

thks again and sorry keep asking so many questions

gary

I would report the said garage it could be somebodies life next time

Hi,
I have to replace my pipes sometime soon....dreading it, found a company on fleabay that will cut/flare the pipes for you.....obviously you let them know sizes etc.....saves worrying about mucking up the flare....might do this tho i might buy a length ofpipe & tool & practice first

Ian

i have one of the basic flaring tools you get in most outlets it has done 100's of pipes over the years if you look on youtube you will find videos showing you how to do it it s very easy the piping is only around £12 or less enough for the whole car some evan come with unions in the pack evan they are 20p each at our local motor factors
the pipe bends very easy by hand i found it handy to have a very small dia bit of pipe bit of 1/2-3/4 copper will do if you want to do a neat tight bend
Ron

added
this is a double flare with the same tool as i have
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDSL8AY0lBQ

teddywood1 said:

I would report the said garage it could be somebodies life next time

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hiya, when they passed my landy with the broken spring i thought they was doing me a favour, BUT, now this brake line is something i simply cannot ignore and will indeed be reporting them, in addition i will be asking VOSA to re examine my freelander at there expense

whilst i dread the mot it does give you some peace of mind that your driving a safe vehicle

im certainly not a happy bunny as thank god i didnt just ignore the spring situation and luckily enough for me a friend looked underneath and pointed it out to me, i will try and get some pics sometime when the suspension etc comes off,

i use to have a flaring tool when i done boiler oil lines etc but got rid of alot of stuff when i had to stop work

still got some rothenburger mini pipe benders but they are 6-8 and 10 mm and dont know what size i need

will check out that flaring tool, thks also for the link,

i always remember when i needed to do a pre measured bend, i put that measurement behind the former and not in front

think im going to get some new rear brake hoses as well

thks so much once again, been looking on the net, but need to find out first what size tubing and fittings i need first

i expect im overcomplicating things here, but as the copper will bend alot easier and possibly come out of the clips easier, are u able to easily remove the old ones or somehow use a cable tie to secure the pipes into the clips,

just wish to ensure when its done that when i go over rough terrian the brake line wont jump out of the clips with it being alot more flexable than the factory steel ones

thks again

gary

The pipes to the wheels will be 3/16" iirc, it often comes in 33' rolls the fittings will be 10mm male or female. I use copper as it bends easily and doesn't rust, it does work harden if you bend it about too much so try to avoid that if you can. You shouldn't need the larger pipes from the master cylinder to the Abs unit.

Yea mate thats how i done it feed it from underneath up to the abs pump. I cant remember the size of the copper pipe but its just the run of the mill basic size stuff. The nuts for the abs pump has a odd size one that my motor factor place didnt have so I reused one of the old ones from there. I also used a slotted brake pipe spanner. My flaring tool is just a cheap one from ebay i got years ago think i payed £14 pound for it. I did use over 1 and a half of copper pipe tho just so u know and dont do what i did and think i would have enough with 1 25m role

Nodge68 said:

The pipes to the wheels will be 3/16" iirc, it often comes in 33' rolls the fittings will be 10mm male or female. I use copper as it bends easily and doesn't rust, it does work harden if you bend it about too much so try to avoid that if you can. You shouldn't need the larger pipes from the master cylinder to the Abs unit.

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:behindsofa:

I agree, the pipe is 3/16" O.D. and the nuts are M10 X 1.00mm pitch and are male threaded , they come in long and short lengths. Although you can use the long nuts, I have found the short fit o.k.
The flares to the wheel cylinders are single flares*, double flares** are used where the copper pipe fits the flexible hose.
Personally, I use a hand operated mini bender as it eliminates the possibility of kinking and gives nice neat bends which leave a professional looking job.
Always cut the copper tube with a junior hacksaw and clean the burr off with a smooth file and blow it out afterwards. The "Wheel" type cutters roll the end of the pipe over and the small forming button pilot pin will not enter the tube.
Always remember to slide the nut on first before flaring !!!
I have a flaring tool purchased from Machine Mart and it has been used many times over the years without problems.

* the single flare is made by using only the "Button" shaped former and is done in a single operation.

** Double flaring is done by using the cone piece on the end of the flaring tool screw to create a cone shape in the end of the tube and the "Button" is inserted to bend the cone over on itself.

On 3/16" tube, the pipe protrusion above the clamping bars prior to flaring needs to be approx. 4mm.

Buy a roll of the copper and have a play with the flaring kit to get the hang of it.

oh bless u for all the great info

have taken a pic sorry couldnt quite get the pics straight, hopefully u will be able to see the affected bit , up on the left hand corner, picture is from the drivers side

really appreciate the help

gary

hiya

starting to buy my bits , but may i pick ur brains please

would i just need a 10 mm slotted brake line spanner

is the bleed nipple on the back of the drums also 10 mm please

plus does anyone know what size the drum bleed nipples are please, as im going to order some new ones as well

many thks

gary

Bleed nipples are also 10 mm. I had to undo mine with Mole grips the last time I bleed the brakes!!

Nodge68 said:

Bleed nipples are also 10 mm. I had to undo mine with Mole grips the last time I bleed the brakes!!

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sounds about right lol, sorry being a pain you dont happen to know what size thread they are please

been looking on ebay etc and they do bleed nipple kits for around a fiver but dont know what size to order

thks again for all ur help with this

will be posting once done some pics in order it can help someone else

gary

gstuart said:

sounds about right lol, sorry being a pain you dont happen to know what size thread they are please

been looking on ebay etc and they do bleed nipple kits for around a fiver but dont know what size to order

M10 X 1.00mm. pitch

There is a good chance the nipples are siezed in the cylinders and it may pay to buy a pair of new cylinders (Aftermarket are quite cheap and come with the nipples) before you start. For the slotted spanner, it needs to be 11mm A/F to fit the brake tube nuts. I think the bleed nipples are 10mm A/F

thks again for all ur help with this

will be posting once done some pics in order it can help someone else

gary

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hiya

thks irishrover, that will teach me not to read it properly, lolol

most appreciated

just wish to make sure ive got everything to hand before starting to undo, cut things out

am going to try my best to get the old pipes out as complete as possible so can use it as a pattern

ive not even looked at the front yet as i dont trust the mot inspection what so ever so will be checking it as much as i can

but have reported them via email to vosa as im very concerned that one day something could be missed and after all its somebodies life that could be endangered

feel guilty as i felt he was doing me a favour with the springs but the brakes are a step too far, also intend documenting everything with pictures

gary

hiya

have looked into everything as much as possible before i take the plunge and start taking out the old units etc, been looking for spring compressors and seen plenty online but was wondering do i have to buy land rover ones, as im only going to use them once for each side dont wish to spend a fortune, but in the same token not going to hire any as i cant get them back as the landy will be off the road for at least a week due to having to do all the brake lines as well.

plus can u think of anything else please
2 x rolls of nickel copper brake line
2 x brake hoses
10 mm male adaptors pack
10 mm female adaptors, pack
2 x bulkhead adaptors for the hose to brake line
2 x brake wheel cylinders
2 x couplings
1 x bender
1 x flaring tool
5 x litres of brake fluid
10 and 11 mm spanner

sorry to be a pain about this but have i forgotten anything please

thks guys

gary

Hi Gary....You can use Copper instead of Cupro Nickel brake pipe if you wish. It will be cheaper, easier to bend and flare and well able to withstand the system pressures.
You mention "Bulkhead adaptors for the brake line"-where do these fit ??, I am sure that the solid brake line connects straight into the end of the flexible hose which is retained in a bracket on the chassis/body with a forked spring clip.
I take it you have a Junior Hacksaw, spare blades and a smooth flat file.

I have a pair of Sykes Pickavant coil spring compressors if you wish to borrow them-just pay the postage both ways....PM me if you are interested.

Good Luck