Snow is coming!

I have 4 vehicles, only one will getup the hill from my place when it snows and thats the Rangie. Tyres certainly make a difference, the RWD Transit with light truck tyres is fecking useless, the R12 FWD will go up in snow but not if it's turned to ice, the MR2 does best (after the Rangie) as it's RWD with all the weight over the driving wheels. I've always found FWD pretty poor on slippery surfaces as weight transfer unloads the front as you attempt to move.

Nope mate, if you can do stop start hill start in snow or on sheet ice in a 2 wheel drive with winter tyres on better than a 4 x4 with lets say summer tyres on i will give you my car.
A challenge is required me thinks!
Im in south yorks on the pennines mate.
We get lots of snow up on these hills.

Where are you?

Nope mate, if you can do stop start hill start in snow or on sheet ice in a 2 wheel drive with winter tyres on better than a 4 x4 with lets say summer tyres on i will give you my car.
A challenge is required me thinks!
Im in south yorks on the pennines mate.
We get lots of snow up on these hills.

Where are you?

StuckAgainSteve said:

Some ATs are better in the snow than others, and yes a saloon (especially FWD) on proper winter tyres will have more grip in the snow - on ice better still. The example given about about a Shogun fishtailing everywhere in 2WD mode is either being driven too aggressively or the tyres are rubbish in the snow. Tyres are more important that how many wheels are being driven.

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Steve you live in Londinium. Maybe most of your 30,000 a year will be done on flat roads and motorways. So if you did get stuck you would be a real plonker. Come up here where it snows properly and nowhere is flat,then
try your theories out. Never in a millions years will your saloon even with winter tyres, out perform a 4x4.

wammers said:

On road in ice and snow two wheeled drive vehicles cannot hope to compete with 4x4s. Front wheel drive maybe perform slightly better that rear wheel drive. But compete with a 4x4 never. Driving ability does play a part. But get on a snow covered hill in stop start traffic in your two wheel drive saloon and you're knackered. I don't care how many miles a year you do.

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7 or 8 years ago when there was a sudden cold snap, I passed many 4x4s stuck on hills in my RWD Senator shod with Vredestein all-seasons (Quatracs?) a car that should be terrible in these conditions - I had no problems apart from the roads being blocked by other vehicles! I love 4x4s and Rangies in particular - but in my experience tyres make more difference than how many wheels are driven.

It all about tyres! [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K053KWIEcL8]Range Rover stuck in 6" of snow - YouTube[/ame]

wammers said:

Steve you live in Londinium. Maybe most of your 30,000 a year will be done on flat roads and motorways. So if you did get stuck you would be a real plonker. Come up here where it snows properly and nowhere is flat,then
try your theories out. Never in a millions years will your saloon even with winter tyres, out perform a 4x4.

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I work and live all over the country depending on my current contract. I used to drive up and down Muswell hill in the snow in 2wd cars with no problems - nearly got wiped out one year by a spinning 4x4 on the wrong tyres though...

Yes ultimately a 4x4 on the right tyres is king, but, not all ATs are particularly good in the snow, if you're on modern road-biased ATs then all bets are off - a 2wd on winters will be far better.

StuckAgainSteve said:

7 or 8 years ago when there was a sudden cold snap, I passed many 4x4s stuck on hills in my RWD Senator shod with Vredestein all-seasons (Quatracs?) a car that should be terrible in these conditions - I had no problems apart from the roads being blocked by other vehicles! I love 4x4s and Rangies in particular - but in my experience tyres make more difference than how many wheels are driven.

It all about tyres! Range Rover stuck in 6" of snow - YouTube

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Yeah silly pimp wheels and tyres granted. But think that vid might have been more down to the prick driving than the car. Not all Range rover drivers are pimps you know.

wammers said:

Yeah silly pimp wheels and tyres granted. But think that vid might have been more down to the prick driving than the car. Not all Range rover drivers are pimps you know.

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You won't hear me knocking Range Rovers! All I'm saying is tyres matter, most people have never experienced proper winter tyres - they are astonishing. All-seasons aren't as good obviously but would be better than even a 4x4 on the "wrong" tyres. Check your tread depths too - less than 3mm and don't expect to find any grip in snow.

Dopey said:

#uksnow Map - UK Snow Twitter Mashup

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As you can see from my aviator I go fishing from my boat and these are a few sites I use

http://www.yr.no/satellitt/europa_animasjon.html

http://www.theweatheroutlook.com/

http://www.xcweather.co.uk/

http://magicseaweed.com/

Grant

StuckAgainSteve said:

You won't hear me knocking Range Rovers! All I'm saying is tyres matter, most people have never experienced proper winter tyres - they are astonishing. All-seasons aren't as good obviously but would be better than even a 4x4 on the "wrong" tyres. Check your tread depths too - less than 3mm and don't expect to find any grip in snow.

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Mine is shod with Avon Rangers they are supurb in snow. You may have a point about the pimp mobiles. Wonder how many people drop the pressures a little when it's snowy, that helps. You should have seen some drivers around here last year, never seen snow on a road it was histerical.

I just hope the drivers remember where their towing eyes are this year,I got totally ****ed off explaining where they where and where they go,there again some of the idiots probably haven't unscrewed them yet from last year

StuckAgainSte[URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1h-sjwbN8s" said:

[/URL]ve;1723638]7 or 8 years ago when there was a sudden cold snap, I passed many 4x4s stuck on hills in my RWD Senator shod with Vredestein all-seasons (Quatracs?) a car that should be terrible in these conditions - I had no problems apart from the roads being blocked by other vehicles! I love 4x4s and Rangies in particular - but in my experience tyres make more difference than how many wheels are driven.

It all about tyres! Range Rover stuck in 6" of snow - YouTube

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looks to be like that sport has bottom'd out on the snow ! - raise suspension and off you go lol dumb asses




Look at this also - there not too bad lol
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1h-sjwbN8s"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1h-sjwbN8s[/ame]

wammers said:

Mine is shod with Avon Rangers they are supurb in snow. You may have a point about the pimp mobiles. Wonder how many people drop the pressures a little when it's snowy, that helps. You should have seen some drivers around here last year, never seen snow on a road it was histerical.

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Brit tyres on your Brit car - I like it! I'm a big fan of Avon motorcycle tyres - always use 'em on my bike. Used Avon (Rainmasters?) on my Jag they were excellent. Couldn't get all-seasons for that.

4x4s on low-profiles are a bit of a joke aren't they? However I remember my brother's Series II on mud tyres, these tyres were rock hard and were chunky but the car was a death trap in snow - no grip at all!

FWIW, my view on the FWD vs RWD vs 4x4 debate is as follows:

RWD - utterly hopeless in the snow UNLESS rear/mid-engined as the weight over the back end helps. Then, tyres are critical.

FWD - on the whole, pretty capable in the snow if driven correctly, particularly if on suitable tyres. I taught my missus how to drive in the snow and she got pretty much everywhere over the last 2 years in her 206 on all-season Vredsteins. We live on top of the Chilterns, so get deep snow, and her job requires her to visit patients any time, day or night. The only time she got stuck was the car bottoming out on snow piled up at junctions - hills were not a problem, and we have plenty of 1:4 round here!

4x4's -certainly the best option in the snow (that why the best snow-stage rally cars are 4wd!) BUT can are very much "make or break" when it comes to tyres. The modern breed of performance 4x4's (RR Sport, Cayenne, X5, ML (AMG's particularly), etc) all come with sporty rubber. It's like a 4wd Porsche 911 - that's 4wd, would you expect it to climb steep snowy hills? Not really, yet it wears the same tyres as all the performance 4x4's I mentioned.

My RR Classic last year didn't get even close to stuck and was on mis-matched, worn tyres - two Toyo Transpaths, two mis-matched other makes, can't even remember. This year my new Classic has 4x A/T tyres, will be interested to see if they're better or worse - bring on the snow!!

I ferkin hope we get snow like last yr. as iv just bought a new tow rope and snow chains
Cheap off Ebizzle!

Last year my Classic RR on 5 yr old bog standard AT tyres never came close to getting stuck, (the ETC only kicked in once) in 12 to 18" of snow.

After the highly satisfying rescues of an X5 and a brand new Honda CRV (both on road tyres) I consider there are 3 factors in successful snow driving

1) Suitable tyres
2) Operator skill
3) The amount of electronic traction 'interference'

The Honda driver was pretty experienced & suitably embarassed and knew the tyres were unsuitable but had no override for the traction control.

A

odyssey said:

3) The amount of electronic traction 'interference'

The Honda driver was pretty experienced & suitably embarassed and knew the tyres were unsuitable but had no override for the traction control.

A

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Ahh but there's traction control and traction control, I bet a FreeLander wouldn't have been stuck in the same situation as the CR-V. Like the P38's system, the spinning wheel(s) would have been braked to transfer torque to the wheel/axle with more traction - engine power would have been maintained. I've owned many "proper" Citroëns, these tend to have the handbrake operating on the front (driven) wheels, in tricky situations I'd pull the handbrake to achieve the same (torque transfer) aim, as you can on a RWD car with a conventional handbrake.

The latest cars with their ever wider and lower profile tyres, automatic parking brakes and cut-spark/fuel traction control systems fitted to cars with with tyres designed to drop lap times round the 'ring or reduce plant food emissions, there's no wonder a sprinkling of snow grinds the country to a halt!

At least (so far) Land Rover continue to fit their cars with traction control systems that do what they say on the tin - even the school-run (yummie) mum Evoke.

odyssey said:

Last year my Classic RR on 5 yr old bog standard AT tyres never came close to getting stuck, (the ETC only kicked in once) in 12 to 18" of snow.

After the highly satisfying rescues of an X5 and a brand new Honda CRV (both on road tyres) I consider there are 3 factors in successful snow driving

1) Suitable tyres
2) Operator skill
3) The amount of electronic traction 'interference'

The Honda driver was pretty experienced & suitably embarassed and knew the tyres were unsuitable but had no override for the traction control.

A

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Sounds like a similar winter driving experience to me then! 20 year old car, knackered tyres, coped admirably!

As you say, the car is only as good as the driver - a rubbish driver could and would still get stuck in a standard RR Classic I'm sure. Equally, one moring I only saw 4x4's anywhere on the roads, bar one guy in a red 1.6 H-reg Cavalier, driving very well and not being phased by hills or anything! I bet he didn't have winter tyres either, the car was only worth £400 tops.

StuckAgainSteve said:

Ahh but there's traction control and traction control....

....The latest cars with their ever wider and lower profile tyres, automatic parking brakes and cut-spark/fuel traction control systems....

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So so true! We were having this discussion down the pub the other night. Apparently of the 'soft-roader' manufacturers, only Hyundai used a proper 4x4 traction control system - i.e. one that diverts power to the wheels with the most grip in order to maintain traction and progress. All the others use a conventional 'car' based system that simply cuts power to the driven wheels when it sense a loss of traction - utterly useless in low grip situations, like snow and ice. It explains why my friends Mitsubushi Outlander managed to drive from Essex to Bucks on the night of the heaviest snowfall just fine, but couldn't get up his steep gravelly drive! Switching the traction control off allowed it to sail on up.

The reason BMW's and Merc's are so useless is this combination of wide tyres and traction control. My 330Ci has 255/35 tyres on the rear and over-eager traction control, rendering it totally and utterly useless in the snow, even just a sprinkling leaves it stranded!

MikeV8SE said:

RWD - utterly hopeless in the snow UNLESS rear/mid-engined as the weight over the back end helps. Then, tyres are critical.

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If driven correctly RWD cars can be the Mutts Nutts for fun in the snow.

I personally prefer a RWD over FWD, but the 4x4 has to be the safest of all, except that they can slide just as far if not further due to the extra weight if grip is lost.

Years ago I had Series 1 86", I touched the brakes in a corner while in high 4x4 (in the ice/snow) and the vehicle done a 360 pirouette, engine braking is defo the way to slow....

Iv got a RWD BMW, and when it snow you may as well just completely give up and go back to bed, misses had a few days off work last yr cuz we couldn't get it off the drive (we live on a small incline) (but very fun when you did get going, admittedly sideways most ov the time)

Yet my van got a vw caddy tdi I epically brilliant

And this yr I az got a rangie roverer to play with