Off-roader literally off-road - 4 sensors - £900 quote?!!

Good evening all..

Been searching through posts for the last couple of hours, am now scared i will go the same way as the member 'scoobie..' who has given up on his RR.

However needs must and we need our wheels running, been forced onto public transport the last few weeks and with 2 toddler's - one being disabled as is his mother - this has proved less than ideal to say the least.

'Rocco' is currently in a local landy specialist, having broken down and the AA recommending this particular garage. Symptoms were lack of power - similar to a rev limiter past 2k revs - slows to 20mph going up steepish hills - following pretty severe pinking when pulling off when running lpg to the point it would cut out, most dangerous at junctions etc as you can imagine

Garage have said Lpg issues would need software to look at them which they cant do, but did get back saying it requires 4 sensors; 2 x lamda £175 each, 1 maf sensor 'which arent made anymore, were £900 new but will do me a 2nd hand one for £300', and a 4th sensor i didnt get name of but was 'only a tenner'. With 2 hours labour and Vat quote was £900 :$

At these prices the car will be scrapped, simply too much to spend out at mo. Looked around including ebay found maf sensors new around £35 each, lamda's at £40 ish each new.

If anybody can offer the value of their wisdom/experience be terribly appreciated. Dont wish to think ill of the garage - it has mixed reviews here - but such a gap in prices for the parts is more than disconcerting.

I could diy fit if easy enough(?!)
Many happy thoughts to anyone that can advise..

Regards

I think you need another Garage, that said it also sounds like they are trying to cover all the bases, and don't really know what the true fault is.
All the parts though taken one by one are quite easy to do yourself. I really would try and get a second opinion though.

Defo get a second opinion......

If you can find a good indy with the diag gear, that will tell you if the MAF output is incorrect, the Lambdas are out of scale or this 'other' sensor (possible temperature or Thermotime Sensor) is incorrect....

I am no expert on the Lambdas or MAF prices, but I would certainly not say £900 worth!!

john-sussex said:

I think you need another Garage, that said it also sounds like they are trying to cover all the bases, and don't really know what the true fault is.
All the parts though taken one by one are quite easy to do yourself. I really would try and get a second opinion though.

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Hi John..

Sound advice cheers, from what ive searched through on here they are regarded as specialists and what they are proposing sounds reasonable, parts wise, as in the symptoms shown would explain a duff maf, and it has been noticed the rr runs rich maybe hence the lamda/02 sensors - needing two i presume one before and after the cat' - could be i just get him back and go thru the little tests suggested in the past forums ie disconnect maf etc..

thanks again for replying fella

4 sensors at the same time? Don't think so - get it somewhere else with diagnostic or maybe someone on here are close by to help.

If the MAF is off, it will also indicate the Lambdas as a fault, as the fuelling could be too rich or lean thus the Lambdas would be off scale...I would think....

Definatly get a second opinion.

Druim said:

4 sensors at the same time? Don't think so - get it somewhere else with diagnostic or maybe someone on here are close by to help.

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Hi Druim and St. V8 - Thank you muchly Garage the rr is at has diagnostic - been withholding name as concerned with the quote but nevermind it's Tim Fry Landrover in Cheltenham.. From researching on here they are considered specialists, but expensive ones, and ney real doubt they are but as SV8 has said and looking around has shown £900 appears excessive..

Druim, 4 sensors at once completely agree with your sentiment however it was showing signs of running rich before - intermittent white smoke from exhaust whether warm or cold engine - so could begin to believe about lamda's..

AA have been out a few times due to battery faults - flat one day, they fitted a new (duff) one, replaced then flat again 3 weeks later, nice patrolman ran some electrical tests showing a drain somewhere - each time the smoke came and went during running whilst they were here so head gasket was suggested as it did require topping up every now and then.

Going to call into them tomorrow as have been debating with myself and our finances as to what to do, really dont want to think i have 'mug' tattoed on my head but i guess we all do sometimes..

Sincere thanks as ever

Was your white smoke on cold mornings as this could just be condensation....

Most of the time over fuelling in a petrol is burnt off in the hot manifold.....and little evidence is seen at the other end....iirc

Saint.V8 said:

Was your white smoke on cold mornings as this could just be condensation....

Most of the time over fuelling in a petrol is burnt off in the hot manifold.....and little evidence is seen at the other end....iirc

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No could literally be anytime of day/night, seemed to do it at random..

(both on petrol and lpg)

LPG burns clean...even if it was over fuelling on LPG you won't notice...

LPG does give off more condensation so it more noticable in the winter months....

is the white stuff fluffy or smokey....could be Head Gasket Failure allowing coolant to enter the combustion chamber and exhausting as white steam....

Check for Compression and oil in water and water in oil etc....if you can do a static pressure check on the coolant system so much the better....not all HGF's result in an overheating engine!!

Saint.V8 said:

LPG burns clean...even if it was over fuelling on LPG you won't notice...

LPG does give off more condensation so it more noticable in the winter months....

is the white stuff fluffy or smokey....could be Head Gasket Failure allowing coolant to enter the combustion chamber and exhausting as white steam....

Check for Compression and oil in water and water in oil etc....if you can do a static pressure check on the coolant system so much the better....not all HGF's result in an overheating engine!!

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white is smokey - for sure thought hg but it completely disappears from exhaust for a while, then appears again.. Signs i can see are loss of coolant, no colour signs in oil or water, temp has gone into red once - sat on side of M5 for it to cool down, re-filled about 3 litres of water - was ok on way back but..

For what it's worth Tim Fry havent said gasket has gone either, just the sensors?!

Regards

yet have to meet a "specialist" i trust, need some facts shown.
Price quoted on parts is steep, too steep, Lambda's is 2-3 times the price. Recently i paid around £150 for two incl. labor (Diagnostic & fitting + peak/reset of diagnostic values for other stuff)

£900 can buy a lot - my car cost me only a snip over.

Pdirty8 said:

white is smokey - for sure thought hg but it completely disappears from exhaust for a while, then appears again.. Signs i can see are loss of coolant, no colour signs in oil or water, temp has gone into red once - sat on side of M5 for it to cool down, re-filled about 3 litres of water - was ok on way back but..

For what it's worth Tim Fry havent said gasket has gone either, just the sensors?!

Regards

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Dicky thermostat, not filled correctly, airlock or simply tank cap not sealing/defect, crack in tank, pump - radiator, plenty to choose from

Stay on top and check it daily, avoiding nasty surprises, level on mine settles just under "Cold Level" mark, fill any higher and it disappears

Where the hell did they get the price for a replacement MAF from?

What year is your car? I was guessing it must be a GEMs engine from the MAF problems (later ones are much cheaper) but if it's got 4 lamdas then it must be a THOR?

I wouldn't even pay £300 for a new MAF, let alone a second hand one - they're having a laugh. I bought a genuine new MAF for my GEMS (ok a couple of years ago now) for £120 and I thought that was a blinking rip off.

There are a couple of second hand suppliers recommended on here - I'd suggest trying Emmots - they seem to be well regarded.

I really would find another garage - I thought my local specialists were expensive.

1,if its a gems (upto 99) get it started on petrol disconnect the maf. If it runs properly and revs freely. Its the maf get a second hand one or new one try island 4x4.

2, For Lambdas try ringing around local motor factors GKN make good ones while it is unlikely to be less than 70 notes it will be cheaper than 175.

They are taking you for a ride. With the loss of coolant pinking and power i would suspect a head gasket as this is the symptoms i had before they went.
You may be sucking air in via the broken gasket and thats whats causing all the faults in the readings.
Compression test first as this does not incur spare parts.
If you cannot do any work on your engine then you could be looking at a lot of cash layout.
You need to know where that coolants going.

If the LPG system is not tuned properly your long term fuel trims will go off the scale, when you switch back to petrol it'll run far too rich or lean depending on the tuning of the LPG system. The long term fuel trim adaptive parameters should be reset to zero then the car checked on petrol to ensure it is all running smoothly - if it runs fine, and only then, should the LPG system be tuned to the right "mixture" - ie a mixture that keeps the lambdas within scope. If this is not done the fuel trims will end up wrong both ways.

Given the garage's approach to "£ixing" this problem - I'd say run a mile - they don't know what they are doing.

kooky_guy said:

Where the hell did they get the price for a replacement MAF from?

What year is your car? I was guessing it must be a GEMs engine from the MAF problems (later ones are much cheaper) but if it's got 4 lamdas then it must be a THOR?

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Yes year of car and engine size would help. I have a Thor engine year 2000 and there are only two lamdas just ahead of the cats. I also have a Jap inport p38 1998 Gems and that has four ?

Get your car out of that garage quick. Their prices are off the scale and the diagnostic doesnt make sense. Start with a compression test, you can do that yourself. Report back.

This whole thing stinks. Get it out of there quick.. you will only have two o2 sensors unless you have a us spec car. All these things can be checked with basic equipment. Start with a compression test, £20 for a gauge of the bay and a hour of your labour at the most.get some results and come back on here and report.

Hi again and thank you all very much for your replies very much appreciated..

Due to personal issues aswell as our son having only just come out of hospital i haven't been able to give the car my full attention but wanted to update -

Car is still in garage, being with the AA and having their Breakdown repair cover - have only just managed to convince them that they should be paying for these issues. They have paid for the sensors to be done, the garage managed to source them for £330 fitted - previous £900 quote because they usually want to fit parts from places they know to be good.

However, the engine still will not rev above 3500 and they believe it to be a wiring fault possibly ecu. Currently as i type they are checking the wiring and will get back to me asap.

AA trying to get out of paying anymore than the £330 even though the brc policy allows 5 claims per year up to 500 each so have checked the terms and conditions and electrical and fuel systems are covered except diesel filters and sunroofs such like.

Was assured car be ready yesterday which was fantastic as son was out of hospital and the sun was out in the sky, plus the little matter of having to drive to devon on monday for a pre-paid mini holiday.. Now not so sure of being able to go

Will pass on your great suggestions to garage though one never knows which will hit the nail on the head

Much gratitude again people...