New to forum: series 2a diesel problem - help needed ASAP

[BigBlueCrawdaddy]

Hey y'all!

This is my first post here. Thanks in advance for any help!

I am a younger American living in Central America with my wife and young son. I have a 1970 series 2a and it is really our only mode of transportation. For as long as I have had the rover it has been good to me. It has ran strong and got me through some long trips and crazy roads.

It has had a few electrical problems here and there but they have all been able to been able to be fixed and resolved most times even on the side of the road and I am back up and running. The only thing I can think of os that it had an odd underlying "putt-putt" sound beneath the normal diesel rumble and if you didn't know Diesel engines you wouldn't notice it and because it never effected performance I didn't worry about it too much. That said I never determined the cause.

Ok so my wife and I were going to visit some family friends about 4 hours away from our home. I checked all the fluids and tire pressure before we left and let the diesel wArm up before the long trip. I have made several long journeys in my series 2, the longest was 8 hours of straight driving through mountains and valleys with no problems and that was only a couple of months back. I filled up the tank at the gas station and we set off. The car was running great and we were making good time going through the mountains and coasts. I cannot stress enough that the car was driving completely normal. No unusual/excess smoke or noises. It was looking like a nice smooth trip. Well we had been driving for about 3 hours and had only stopped a couple of times to take pictures. My wife was getting hungry and asked me to pull over for a rest and food. I waited for the next little town and pulled into a shop. I parked the truck and turned it off and we went inside for a quick bite to eat. We were in the shop no more than 20-25 minutes. When we were done eating we got in the car and I cranked it up. It started up up away but immediately was making this HORRIBLE loud banging sound and was running much more rough then usual shaking the car. I cut the car back off and tried cranking again. The same thing happened. I needed to move it to a place where I could work/look at it so I tried putting it in reverse to drive it about 10-15 feet off to the side. It was much less powerful and was puffin out small tufts of black smoke. I immediately turned it off and pushed it off to the side. It began having problems cranking, so i messed around with the electrical system and got it to crank again. It was still running really rough and just sounded very bad. I then took a look at the head gasket and it was a little messed up so I scrapped it off and took some lock tite silicon gasket putty and did a temporary fix seeing as I was about 45 min to my friends house and didn't want to be stuck in the middle of nowhere. It made a good seal and I put everything back together. I then tried cranking it again. Same thing happened loud banging much rougher and noisier than usual. I looked under the car and it wasn't leaking oil ( though it has always leaked a few drops here and there ) and there was no oil in radiator. I then decided I needed to get it towed back to my home instead of friends house because of his remote location. Living in Central America is great for the most part but being an American there are people that try and take advantage of you here ( especially mechanics ) and I am by no means a "rich gringo". So I had pay a tow fee and cancel my plans and ride home 3 hours in the back of a tow truck. I have a couple of local friends with old rovers who are also trying to help.

My family and I are kinda stuck and need a vehicle to get around and work. I hate being the guy who joins to ask for help but I don't know exactly what to do and I don't want just anyone working on it. I am between a rock and a hard place! Please if anyone has any ideas please let me know. I can get land over parts here it is a little far but possible. I'm excited to join the forums just wish it was for leisure not under necessity.

Any help is very appreciated!

Thank you again and God bless.
Bigblue

 

[BigBlueCrawdaddy]

Im pretty sure its either the fuel pump or a compression issue. One local guy thinks it could be a cracked block. Anythoughts I really need help yall. If I cant get this fixed in the next week idk what ill do.


I just dont see how it drove so well and after parking for less than 30 min it starts having serious problems..

Could something as serious as a cracked head manifest itself all the sudden with no symptoms previous to the problem?

Thanks for reading and any advice

 

[Davidss]

... I then took a look at the head gasket and it was a little messed up so I scrapped it off and took some locktite silicon gasket putty and did a temporary fix ...

So you removed the cylinder head while parked in a shop car park?
While doing this you didn't notice anything amiss with the pistons, like the dirt pattern on one of the piston crowns being different to all the rest?
Did you do any other visual check while you had the head off?

I understand you filled it up with fuel just before the trip started. Was this your normal filling station? If so, have you ever had any 'bad fuel' problems before?
If a diesel starts running roughly my first thought is always water in the fuel, so I'd drain the fuel filter, and sedimentor if it has one fitted, then bleed the system.

The 'HORRIBLE loud banging sound' is a concern; I wonder if a hotspot has come loose, but I think that would have been obvious when you removed the head.

I'm beginning to wonder if we have the original problem, of two nations separated by a common language. When you say 'head gasket' you do mean the gasket between the cylinder head and the engine block, don't you?

Hope This Helps.

 

[BigBlueCrawdaddy]

Thank you for your reply,

I too thought it could be bad fuel. It was my regular fuel station but given our location it wouldn't surprise if t had some water in it. I am still going to bleed it. And yea I had my tools with me and with the help of a local man we took 3-4 hours trying to at least find the problem. We removed valve cover to check gasket and then worked our way down eventually removing head. We didn't find anything super out of the ordinary but it looked like both gaskets needed to be replaced and makes me wonder about others. I am no expert by any means but we carefully looked through the parts of the engine we could and nothing jumped out at us as out of the ordinary. Would a bad pump make such a noise? Would it make the car shake and run that rough? The fuel filter was in need of a change soon.

I didn't notice anything but I was working in less than prime conditions. Would a bent rod(s) cause any of these symptoms?

 

[Davidss]

Hmmm, sorry for apparently doubting what you said, it's just that we do have to be aware of 'translation' issues

For me, the difficulty is 'the noise', and in particular its sudden start.
Fuel lift pump? I'd say No, that couldn't cause this problem.
Injection pump? If it had slipped (giving incorrect timing) it might cause low power, and / or lots of smoke, and a change in noise, but I'd say not the noise you describe.
Bent rod? Difficult to see how that might come on suddenly, unless it was an 'effect' rather than a cause, as in a head gasket failure developing while you are driving, coolant entering a cylinder as the engine cools, then hydraulicing when you come to re-start the engine. I think that most unlikely.

If the filter was 'full' of water, then the combined fuel and water being injected would result in the water instantly boiling, and this can give the symptom of the occasional 'misfire'. This might have been the 'odd underlying "putt-putt" sound beneath the normal diesel rumble'. If this was happening often the results would be seen as steam cleaned pistons.

The noise didn't go away after you had the head off, so this probably discounts a broken cam follower.
I think you are going to have to take the head off again anyway.
I don't know if you did it last time, but this time I'd turn the engine over, initially by hand, and even perhaps with the starter, while the head is off, and see if the noise is present.

Do you have the workshop manual for the engine? There is some advice in there about what to look for regarding hot spot issues, and associated head damage. Operation A2-23.

That's all I can offer now.

Good Luck.

 

[jamesmartin]

you need to remove head again and replace gasket , check all pistons reach the same tdc, none are washed clean due to coolant entering cylinder, check cam followers and rods

 

[boguing]

Horrible banging and shaking has happened to me a few times.

Two times were petrol engines with failed ignition coil packs.

Another was a slipped timing belt on a 200 diesel.

Most impressive was a heater plug which 'blew out', 200 again.

Leaking injectors can give a very good shake/bang too.

My point is that an engine running on three cylinder looks and sounds like a very broken thing, but it might not be a huge problem. And it might not be an internal problem either. And it can sound like metal banging metal, even when it isn't.

After eliminating tell tales like jets of air coming from loose fittings on the head, dribbles of fuel etc. I'd try disconnecting each injector in turn and seeing if any one makes a difference. If one doesn't, then you know that the problem is in that cylinder. Swap that injector for another. Try again, if no difference it's the cylinder, if not it's the injector itself.

Only then would I go on to taking the head off.

 

[divie]

It sounds to me like a fuelling issue, you sure you did not put petrol in ?
Next up on my check list would be an injector, get it running and crack each union off in turn to see if one makes a difference. I nearly scrapped an engine once due to dreadful noise smoke and loss of power. Turned out to be a knackered injector ( actually a poorly fitted sealing washer)

 

[nickjaxe]

A bad or sticking injector can cause your type of prob...odd it only started after being parked...but the odd put put noise you where getting could have been a tell tale as could the puffs of black smoke,

I take my hat off to you Sir...taking the head off at the side of the road...sounds like you re-fitted the old gasket...is that correct...its really needs a new one to seal correctly,

did all the round hot spots look secure in the head when you had it off???

To test for a bad injector...get the engine to idle if you can...and in turn loosen each injector pipe one at a time in turn so as to stop fuel going to each injector...if one id dud...when you undo its feed pipe it should if its the one causing the problem,

I ran a 2.25d for over 35 years till I replaced it with my present 200 engine...so know them quite well,

Good luck and keep us informed.

Nick in the UK.

P.S. sorry just noticed the post before mine gave the same ideas...

 

[BigBlueCrawdaddy]

Ok y'all we made alittle progress today.

The car is now parked with a friend. His dad knows an older man who owns and services series landrovers. He came over to look at the truck and here is what he told me.

Well at least what I understood. They use different words for things and many are words I wouldn't hear in spanish other than when talking about Diesel engines.

The man said the problem is in the bulbs. That one or two are not acting right.

He said I would have to remove the head and have it "checked and rectified" ( idk what he means hopefully someone here can elaborate) before we put it back on ( he kept calling it the upper block I am assuming he meant the head. And he said whenever he removes them he has them. "Rectified to prevent future problems and for longevity of the motor"

He said that then all the bulbs must be tested and see if they are working properly and the burnt ones must be replaced. Then it all has to be properly tuned so that it performs correctly.

I am assuming again he meant glow bulbs. Does this sound correct? I somewhat trusting of the man he has a very nice series 1. I am just trying to cover all my bases.


If this makes since to anyone here is it doable oneself? He is asking more than I have an saying the head must be taken to a lab for rectification.

This probably all makes more sense to a spanish speaker but his English was good but my spanish is not as good with some of the engine terms.

Thank you everyone for your help!

 

[Blackburn]

Normal head repairs are skimming , valves , hotspots , injector & seats.
Do you have a manual available if not you can download it here
pdf Land Rover Manuals | Landroverweb.com

 

[divie]

It sounds like he is refering to the injectors as my previous post. They should be checked for spray pattern and set to 130/135 bar pressure. You say the head has to come off, be sure to look carefully at the hot spots for cracks and ensure they are tight in the head. For the price of a gasket and injector seals it is worth a go, I always re torque the head after warm up and have never had a gasket go. It does mean removing the injectors to do it so buy extra seals.

 

[nickjaxe]

Mmmmm dont make a lot of sense to me...I wonder if he means hot spots that are in the combustion chamber part of the head...round disc looking things with a hole in,

I has been known for them to come loose and drop hitting the piston and wrecking the head in the process,

You said you had the head off...I'm sure if you looked you would have seen evidence of one being loose and damage to a piston,

If it where a heater plug there should be no reason the remove the head to replace them...same with faulty injectors,

Did you take the head off when you first had this problem...it was not clear in your first post if so it needs to come off again to fit a new gasket anyway.

Nick.

 

[BigBlueCrawdaddy]

Hey thank you everyone for your help. We did take off the head originally but the old man mechanic is saying it was unnecessary: he keeps telling me the "bulbs" ( closest translation we can muster) are bad and that one or 2 aren't firing right and must be replaced and tuned. To be honest I am confused by what he is saying. I think he means injectors and glow plugs ( maybe the bulbs he is referring to ). If so are the difficult to tune properly? I do believe he knows his stuff but that there is a language barrier but he wants like American mechanic prices... Which doesn't make sense. I don't doubt it's worth it either but I know he is probably asking for more than he would a Latin.... Because he is wanting more than 2 moths worth of wages for a local..:. And I truly can't afford it so I have to do this myself. Are there special tools required for proper calibration? A close friend has a series 2 petrol but he doesn't know anything about diesel. Back home I had a Chevy 6.5td and I've worked on diesels alittle but this is different. Also I can't find a series 2 service manual can I use a series 3 manual? Also I do not know what he is talking about "rectifying" the top block.... And y'all got me paranoid about the hot spots haha.

 

[BigBlueCrawdaddy]

He keeps calling everything the "block" but it's not the actual "block" or even the head because he said we wouldn't have to take off the head for repairs just like y'all said about changing heat plugs and injectors but he said there is something that must be inspected and " rectified"...: does he mean remachined or smoothed out/cleaned I cannot figure out what part he is speaking of... And to make it worse it's at my friends who is 30 min away by car so I and work on it at my leisure but have to wait for him...

I must seem so clueless and for that I am sorry but the language thing is really complicating this for me. I have family appointments in the city and must get this thing going.

 

[nickjaxe]

Prob is injectors he is refering to to...some people call them sprayers...

The need setting on a machine...have you any fuel injection shops anywhere near...any garage that works on heavy trucks will prob have the equipment to re-set them...should be able to get the pressure setting for the injectors from our manuals over here if you need them,

A bad one will cause a real bad knock but not always...head will not need to be removed to set them...

But if he knows you fitted the old head gasket he will prob be wanting to take the head off to replace the gasket...I take it you re-fitted the old one????

 

[jamesmartin]

injectors are set at 135 bar, my first thought with knock is tappets push rods and followers or head gasket

 

[BigBlueCrawdaddy]

Yea did reset old one so I was already trying to get the gasket kit.

So I do need to take the injectors in to har them properly set? Guess I'll have to bite the bullet on that one.

He also keeps saying 2 bulbs are burnt out so have to think e is talking about heater plugs?

Thank you nick for quick reply!

 

[BigBlueCrawdaddy]

Also thank you James!

I thought it was something in the head as well. I will check it before I reset the gasket.

Is having injectors set and "tuned" generally expensive? they are wanting 300+$ just for whatever is being done at the shop for calibration that doesn't include the old guys fee for "fixing" everything. I am feeling alittle taken but I am not taking anything anywhere until I know what they are doing and figure out what I can and cannot do myself but I just don't see how tuning/calibrating could be that expensive here...

 

[jamesmartin]

its hard to speculate with out pictures of head gasket ,piston tops ,head face etc, did you reset tappets when you refitted head ?