Internittent start, no power and lots of blue/black smoke

My '94 300Tdi has really been playing up of late. In the cold she has taken a few turns of the key to get going but as it has been very cold I wasn't too worried.

Today after usual start I filled her up and when I came back to park it she didn't have enough power to drive up the very gentle slope on my drive, stalled and wouldn't restart.

I waited 10 minutes and tried again, she started but ran with lots of ble/black smoke coming from exhaust and again when I tried to reverse up drive, she wouldn't.

Can anybody offer any ideas as to what could be up with my Disco and the most cost effective way to sort it out on a perminent basis?

Cheers!

don't know about the bad starting but the rest sounds like what mine did when i blew a turbo hose..

mine was the bottom intercooler hose but was also told before i found the problem that it could be blown seals on the turbo..

the way i checked was start it up and rev it gentally(in the engine bay by the throttle arm) and listen to see if the turbo was spinning up and whistleing or making any unuseual noise's like scraping rattles so on, once i had done that i sprayed a bit of wd40 around the turbo hose's untill the engine rasied from idel(letting me know a pipe was sucking it into the engine)..

try the above it may or may not help but its something to start from.

I've looked (and looked) for the Turbo Hose and despite also consulting my Haynes disco manual I am at a loss as to where it is.

I have posted a picture of my injun and am hoping some kind fellow can give me a better idea where to look!

Cheers

Kev627 said:

I've looked (and looked) for the Turbo Hose and despite also consulting my Haynes disco manual I am at a loss as to where it is.

I have posted a picture of my injun and am hoping some kind fellow can give me a better idea where to look!

Cheers

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You want to find the turbo hoses?

Ok, first find the air filter, then follow it's corrugated black pipe past the Air mass meter (box-looking thing) towards the rear of the RHS engine, there you will find the turbo. Lets call this the incoming side.

On the other side (outgoing) of the turbo is a rubber elbo connecting to a straight metal pipe and then another rubber pipe before connecting onto the bottom of a radiator-looking thing, called the intercooler.

The idea is that air is sucked through the air filter, passed and compressed by the turbo to the intercooler, where it is cooled before going up to the inlet manifold and into the engine.

So, if there is ANY leak of the plumbing between the turbo and the inlet manifold this will reduce power dramatically.

you pic isent showing enougth to help better but..


the red box is your intercooler to inlet manifold hose(top turbo hose), follow this back and you will find that it attaches to the intercooler radiator, follow this down and you will find the next hose(bottom intercooler hose/bottom turbo hose)..follow this back and you will find your turbo.

these are the hose's to check for loss(as i did spray some wd40 around them if theres a split the engine idel speed should increase due to it sucking the wd40 in..

now you have found your turbo you can also give the engine a gental rev(raise it enougth to bring the turbo in) and listen to see if you get a nice whistel or if its making any other noise's it shouldent.

I decided to cut my losses and took my Disco to a Landy garage this morning, expecting to be told pretty much the same as on here.

WRONG!

It looks like it is a more serious problem with the pistons and is going to cost me £300 labour for them to remove top of piston to check and then the cost of any parts and any further labour to get it fixed.


Man also thinks there are other little things in engine that could also need attention.

Now I see why I was sold this, seller knew everything was about to go pop!

Kev627 said:

I decided to cut my losses and took my Disco to a Landy garage this morning, expecting to be told pretty much the same as on here.

WRONG!

It looks like it is a more serious problem with the pistons and is going to cost me £300 labour for them to remove top of piston to check and then the cost of any parts and any further labour to get it fixed.


Man also thinks there are other little things in engine that could also need attention.

Now I see why I was sold this, seller knew everything was about to go pop!

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Hi Kev, on the face of what you've just said, it doesn't make sense !! There is no such thing as "removing the top of a piston" assuming you are referring to the 4 main pistons within the block of the engine - I get a distinct feeling that someone is taking the p*ss!!

Was this a Land Rover dealer or a smaller Land Rover specialist??

Sounds like the garage is taking the p***.

With the engine running are you getting lots of bubbling going on in your expansion tank (check when engine is cold or you could end up with boiling hot water shooting everywhere).

thebiglad said:

Hi Kev, on the face of what you've just said, it doesn't make sense !! There is no such thing as "removing the top of a piston" assuming you are referring to the 4 main pistons within the block of the engine - I get a distinct feeling that someone is taking the p*ss!!

Was this a Land Rover dealer or a smaller Land Rover specialist??

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Thinking about it, it wasn't the top of the piston but I can't think the exact term used . The garage is an independant Land Rover specialist but they are not that 'small'.

sounds like similar story to mine. bought my disco last summer 300 t.d.i auto 94.Only had it a few weeks set of for south wales for holiday with wife and two kids.Got as far as north wales from Manchester over heated R.A.C said there was stange noise and vibration from engine .Recovery back to manchester .My mate has a garage and he discovered radiator was blocked but worse than that he took the head off and found two cracked piston cylinders scored and tops of pistons were bashed on valves.We had bought the car of my wifes cousin they wern't interested in refunding our money so I bought radiator pistons e.t.c from paddocks £350 mate did all work for £400 .Car had run fine when I got it only when I went on first long run did it over heat.It had obviously been overheated in the past and this had caused engine damage.Since then I have towed caravan down to Wales no problems and passed M.O.T last week only needed two bulbs.Hope yours isnt as bad as mine was but at least your not the only one to get ripped off.

rollin danny said:

sounds like similar story to mine. bought my disco last summer 300 t.d.i auto 94.Only had it a few weeks set of for south wales for holiday with wife and two kids.Got as far as north wales from Manchester over heated R.A.C said there was stange noise and vibration from engine .Recovery back to manchester .My mate has a garage and he discovered radiator was blocked but worse than that he took the head off and found two cracked piston cylinders scored and tops of pistons were bashed on valves.We had bought the car of my wifes cousin they wern't interested in refunding our money so I bought radiator pistons e.t.c from paddocks £350 mate did all work for £400 .Car had run fine when I got it only when I went on first long run did it over heat.It had obviously been overheated in the past and this had caused engine damage.Since then I have towed caravan down to Wales no problems and passed M.O.T last week only needed two bulbs.Hope yours isnt as bad as mine was but at least your not the only one to get ripped off.

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My bold, this is what is wrong with mine. Man in garage said (at least) one piston head is slightly mishapen but will only know for sure one he's gotten into engine properly tomorrow.
re overheating in the past, I noticed a couple of weeks ago the engine temp seemed very hot but since then it has remained 'normal' so it seems as if the damage could have been caused then if not before? It had only passed it's MoT about 2 weeks before I bought it so I think that lulled me into a false sense of security about it and so I didn't check it out quite as fully as it seems I should, had to fork out £250 to fix diesal leak in pump in Nevember!

dont know much about engines but from what I can gather you have to really overheat the engine and drive like that to cause that kind of damage .So lots of steam would be bellowing from engine.Damage was probably caused before you bought it.

as I said dont know much about engines but know a lot more now through landyzone.The 300 t.d.i is a great engine but it has some design faults making it prone to overheating.The water pump is high on the engine and only a small amount of coolant like 10 to 15% has to be lost before pump stops circulating coolant also water can drop bellow thermostat level and leave it high and dry .Result engine overheats and temperature gauge reads normal.One Landy owner said this happened twice in six mounths and he only knew he was overheating when a mate following him noticed steam from under car.There is however a replacement cap for expansion tank that has a dipstick attched that sensors drop in coolant and sends early warning to light\bleep on dash.Think the part is about £35 but dont know how easy to fit.Does anyone have any experience of these .Worth fitting or am I just being paranoid?

rollin danny said:

as I said dont know much about engines but know a lot more now through landyzone.The 300 t.d.i is a great engine but it has some design faults making it prone to overheating.The water pump is high on the engine and only a small amount of coolant like 10 to 15% has to be lost before pump stops circulating coolant also water can drop bellow thermostat level and leave it high and dry .Result engine overheats and temperature gauge reads normal.One Landy owner said this happened twice in six mounths and he only knew he was overheating when a mate following him noticed steam from under car.There is however a replacement cap for expansion tank that has a dipstick attched that sensors drop in coolant and sends early warning to light\bleep on dash.Think the part is about £35 but dont know how easy to fit.Does anyone have any experience of these .Worth fitting or am I just being paranoid?

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There's a thread on here somewhere for that, It's a rr cap but you have to wire it through a relay since it works the opposite way you would want it to, also there is also a black box thing on a thread also which warns you.

Is it worth it??, it seems to be fairly common, and costly when it happens, It's on my list of do's.

rollin danny said:

as I said dont know much about engines but know a lot more now through landyzone.The 300 t.d.i is a great engine but it has some design faults making it prone to overheating.The water pump is high on the engine and only a small amount of coolant like 10 to 15% has to be lost before pump stops circulating coolant also water can drop bellow thermostat level and leave it high and dry .Result engine overheats and temperature gauge reads normal.One Landy owner said this happened twice in six mounths and he only knew he was overheating when a mate following him noticed steam from under car.There is however a replacement cap for expansion tank that has a dipstick attched that sensors drop in coolant and sends early warning to light\bleep on dash.Think the part is about £35 but dont know how easy to fit.Does anyone have any experience of these .Worth fitting or am I just being paranoid?

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You've got me a bit worried now - are you SURE that there is a problem with these temp gauges. I pose this question as I'm currently running my Tdi 300 without it's viscous fan and never SEEM to have a temperature problem.

So,
1. How do you know if the temp gauge isn't given genuine accurate information &

2. Is there another sender/gauge combo that I could install which would give a more accurate and reliable picture of the heat in my engine?

Thanks in advance for any helpful answers.

Sorry Biglad what I should have said is temperature sender gets left high and dry giving false reading on temp gauge

rollin danny said:

Sorry Biglad what I should have said is temperature sender gets left high and dry giving false reading on temp gauge

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Hi Danny, so if I understand right, assuming that you check your header tank coolant level often, there shouldn't be a problem??

Please say yes - I nearly sh*t myself when I read your previous reply !!!

thebiglad said:

You've got me a bit worried now - are you SURE that there is a problem with these temp gauges. I pose this question as I'm currently running my Tdi 300 without it's viscous fan and never SEEM to have a temperature problem.

So,
1. How do you know if the temp gauge isn't given genuine accurate information &

2. Is there another sender/gauge combo that I could install which would give a more accurate and reliable picture of the heat in my engine?

Thanks in advance for any helpful answers.

Click to expand...

You could look into getting a little sensor for say about 88deg and put it into the rad, wired up into the cab to a warning light. Problem with this is it relys on things like the water level being high enough for circulation, and the thermostat working.

Another and better option would be to find somewhere on the block you could fit a sensor, without going outside and looking I can't think of one off hand.

Prevention is always better than cure...

Always glance at your fluid levels when you got the bonnet open, it takes a minute to do and could save your life or your wallet!

But if someones got details of an aux temp sender for the 300 shout up!

Kev627 said:

My bold, this is what is wrong with mine. Man in garage said (at least) one piston head is slightly mishapen but will only know for sure one he's gotten into engine properly tomorrow.

Click to expand...

that is impossible to tell without removing the head from the engine..

if your pistons where cracked miss shaped worn or broken in any way you would know...the engine itself would be making a lot of noise due to the pressure in the cylinder's being uneven throwing the balence way off it.

i have never seen a landy with a blown piston but i have had a few smaller cars that have blown there engine's and belive me i knew it was a big problem long before it got to a garage..

they rattled like fook they boiled the water jacket within miniuts of running and the oil gave the same signs as a blown head gasket just with a lot more noise from the block its self.

does your engine sound like its running on less than 4 cylinder's do you hear it miss fireing or decompressing on a certian point ?

i would never belive any mechanic who told me he had xray vision as thats the only way he could tell you it was that before splitting the block to look in...

some of my info may be way off as i say i have never had a blown lump in a landy yet but if a small car makes a lot of noise then i expect a landy would too .