Ignition amp.

My '87 RRC had it's original dissy mounted ignition amplifier replaced last summer with the later remote amp. purchased from a 'well known' supplier of aftermarket ign. components for classic cars. Five months & very few miles later it failed so the supplier replaced the amp under warranty & I purchased a 'matching' ign. coil as well, just in case there was a mismatch with the virtually new coil already on the car.
Now only three months later the car is exhibiting early signs of the same problem, so my take is that both the amps are rubbish.

I realise that there is every chance that these replacements all come from the same www.weproducecrap.com but has anyone found a better source?
Cheers guys.

norseman said:

My '87 RRC had it's original dissy mounted ignition amplifier replaced last summer with the later remote amp. purchased from a 'well known' supplier of aftermarket ign. components for classic cars. Five months & very few miles later it failed so the supplier replaced the amp under warranty & I purchased a 'matching' ign. coil as well, just in case there was a mismatch with the virtually new coil already on the car.
Now only three months later the car is exhibiting early signs of the same problem, so my take is that both the amps are rubbish.

I realise that there is every chance that these replacements all come from the same www.weproducecrap.com but has anyone found a better source?
Cheers guys.

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A good question

It seems that if you don't own a defender or disco 1/2 you get crap aftermarket parts from "oem" quality shït

norseman said:

My '87 RRC had it's original dissy mounted ignition amplifier replaced last summer with the later remote amp. purchased from a 'well known' supplier of aftermarket ign. components for classic cars. Five months & very few miles later it failed so the supplier replaced the amp under warranty & I purchased a 'matching' ign. coil as well, just in case there was a mismatch with the virtually new coil already on the car.
Now only three months later the car is exhibiting early signs of the same problem, so my take is that both the amps are rubbish.

I realise that there is every chance that these replacements all come from the same www.weproducecrap.com but has anyone found a better source?
Cheers guys.

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Assume the amp is a pattern part of RTC5089 that you’re fitting.
Haven’t you tried fitting the genuine part STC1184G three pin module remotely with its extension lead this amp as this supersedes the RTC item

I see here’s already a few threads on this subject.

discool said:

Assume the amp is a pattern part of RTC5089 that you’re fitting.
Haven’t you tried fitting the genuine part STC1184G three pin module remotely with its extension lead this amp as this supersedes the RTC item

I see here’s already a few threads on this subject.

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Thanks for that info. I'll look into it. I had assumed that such genuine parts were either no longer available or more likely the same inferior quality as the aftermarket offerings.

norseman said:

Thanks for that info. I'll look into it. I had assumed that such genuine parts were either no longer available or more likely the same inferior quality as the aftermarket offerings.

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Lucas parts are still around although owned North American company, but genuine Lucas parts are still manufactured in the UK I understand.
Over the years we have been told that its best to carry on using Lucas if your Land Rover left the factory fitted with them… so of the top of my head… for the 3.5 RR… coil, dizzy & cap, rotator arm, arm, amplifier module and coil, and Lucas Iirc in a white LR box back then
All much the same for my 3.9 disco but that now has a Bosch coil fitted at the factory, the amp module which was removed from the dizzy and now positioned remotely near the coil by the factory

I've had recent (last summer) experience of Lucas ign. components. Having decided to renew both the dizzy cap & rotor arm, purely as they were probably the originals, I purchased replacements & also went for a new coolant sensor (ECU not temp gauge) all ordered from a well know & respected LR parts supplier.
The dizzy cap & rotor in green Lucas boxes (made in Turkey) were of such poor quality that I returned them for a refund & cleaned up my original (blue) cap & 'made in UK' rotor.
The sensor, in the old style red/black Lucas box complete with the old logo, was made in China but that seems to work fine as the tailpipe colour is now a dark grey after a run instead of the black I have always been used to.

In my youth, Lucas was known as the prince of darkness as their stuff was so unreliable.

Datatek said:

In my youth, Lucas was known as the prince of darkness as their stuff was so unreliable.

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I remember that, along with the Lucas light switch having 3 positions .. dim, flicker & off

norseman said:

I remember that, along with the Lucas light switch having 3 positions .. dim, flicker & off

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LOL

The ignition amplifier must have an earth, through its two mounting screws. Its relocation is a very good idea but relying on the inner wing of a RRC as an earth can be a gamble due to corrosion. I'd suggest running a wire from the amp and earth it on the dizzy if it has a male spade poking out near the original amp location, or to an eyelet terminal on the water pump.
I'd also keep the wires from the dizzy to the new amp location away from close proximity to any HT leads. The amp can pickup erroneous signals. I have seen this before.
The air gap inside the dizzy between rotor and Hall sensor is important but its a pain to check due to the tamper proof screws holding the protection cap on.

Rangieman123 said:

The ignition amplifier must have an earth, through its two mounting screws. Its relocation is a very good idea but relying on the inner wing of a RRC as an earth can be a gamble due to corrosion. I'd suggest running a wire from the amp and earth it on the dizzy if it has a male spade poking out near the original amp location, or to an eyelet terminal on the water pump.
I'd also keep the wires from the dizzy to the new amp location away from close proximity to any HT leads. The amp can pickup erroneous signals. I have seen this before.
The air gap inside the dizzy between rotor and Hall sensor is important but its a pain to check due to the tamper proof screws holding the protection cap on.

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Thanks for that. The remote amp is mounted on a aluminium bracket (that came with the kit from PowerSpark) bolted onto the inner wing.
Is aluminium a sound earthing material in the same way as steel is though ?

norseman said:

Thanks for that. The remote amp is mounted on a aluminium bracket (that came with the kit from PowerSpark) bolted onto the inner wing.
Is aluminium a sound earthing material in the same way as steel is though ?

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Aluminum is a good conductor, I would follow the advice above^^^ and add an earth wire from the bracket to a suitable point on the engine or if possible to the battery negative in a reasonably heavy gauge wire .

Datatek said:

Aluminum is a good conductor, I would follow the advice above^^^ and add an earth wire from the bracket to a suitable point on the engine or if possible to the battery negative in a reasonably heavy gauge wire .

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Many thanks for the advice, I will follow it all as soon as I'm able.

Update > I have used 4mm cable to run an additional earth wire from the amp bracket to the alternator bracket bolt on the block & made minor changes (major not practical) to the routing of the dissy to amp harness to give greater clearance from any HT leads.

norseman said:

Thanks for that. The remote amp is mounted on a aluminium bracket (that came with the kit from PowerSpark) bolted onto the inner wing.
Is aluminium a sound earthing material in the same way as steel is though ?

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Was the amp already screw on the alloy bracket, which is also acts as a heat sink, if no you didn’t forget to smear the mating surface with MS4 silicone grease amp or an equivalent heat contacting compound if not the amp could go faulty sooner or latter.

As for the separate earth, what earth would that be? the only grounding required and that is done via the amps alloy back plate when screw to the the alloy mounted bracket, all the electrical links required are in the patch lead between the amp and distributor.

discool said:

Was the amp already screw on the alloy bracket, which is also acts as a heat sink, if no you didn’t forget to smear the mating surface with MS4 silicone grease amp or an equivalent heat contacting compound if not the amp could go faulty sooner or latter.

As for the separate earth, what earth would that be? the only grounding required and that is done via the amps alloy back plate when screw to the the alloy mounted bracket, all the electrical links required are in the patch lead between the amp and distributor.

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Sorry I don't quite follow your question.
The first Amp I purchased was already attached to the alloy bracket when received from the supplier & failed a relatively short time after. Having read advice on this forum that an extra earth to the bracket might be worthwhile, as any corrosion in the inner wing could compromise such a contact, I re-read the installation instructions & noticed that advice was also shown.
I will browse the supplier's advice again & make changes if advised.

nb: I'm not convinced that the industry's decision to re-locate the Amp from it's original position on the side of the distributor (due to the risk of heat damage?) was really necessary. Obviously I don't know if the original factory fitted Amp had ever been replaced prior to my purchase of the RR, but it took 15 years for it to fail in my ownership whereas the new remote only took 5 months

As they don't like spending money I doubt they would have bothered if it wasn't necessary & I'm inclined to think it was probably showing up in numbers on vehicles during the warranty period.

Ratae said:

As they don't like spending money I doubt they would have bothered if it wasn't necessary & I'm inclined to think it was probably showing up in numbers on vehicles during the warranty period.

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Sounds plausible though I can't find any info. as to when the revision actually took place, but that's only out of curiosity

norseman said:

nb: I'm not convinced that the industry's decision to re-locate the Amp from it's original position on the side of the distributor (due to the risk of heat damage?) was really necessary. Obviously I don't know if the original factory fitted Amp had ever been replaced prior to my purchase of the RR, but it took 15 years for it to fail in my ownership whereas the new remote only took 5 months

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Ok my 3.5 RR which I owned from new had just over 100,000 miles and when at 10 years old I sold it, ait never has any ignition issues, and as all 3.5s then including my TVR before had the amplifier on the distributor… in fact I was unaware there was a perceived issue with the amp in that location, I can’t remember the issue being mentioned in the LRO mag back then.
So maybe it could be a 3.9 issue.

When I purchased my new 3.9 disco I found the amplifier was now on a bracket which is bolted to the slam panel on the near side… so perhaps as sometimes the 3.9 engine bay gets a bit hotter, I had a couple of months to compare both engines before the RR sold.

Land Rover doesn’t know where or how their vehicles are used so maybe they decided the previous location on the side of a distributor wasn’t suitable I haven’t seen the definitive answer… not that I'm that interested.

Anyway. My disco is 26 years old plus and the ignition amplifier is untouched and mounted on the same alloy bracket that the coil is clamped to, the bracket is retained to the slam panel with a single nut & bolt, so giving a satisfactory “earth” and its in a ideal position so LR can terminated the braided earth strip from the engine block also on this bolt, again never had any issues, plug and lead change thats it.

No additional earth wiring required, perhaps LR know best

discool said:

Anyway. My disco is 26 years old plus and the ignition amplifier is untouched and mounted on the same alloy bracket that the coil is clamped to, the bracket is retained to the slam panel with a single nut & bolt, so giving a satisfactory “earth” and its in a ideal position so LR can terminated the braided earth strip from the engine block also on this bolt, again never had any issues, plug and lead change thats it.

No additional earth wiring required, perhaps LR know best

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That's encouraging news.
Another prompt for me to inspect the braided earth strap & it's connections