i need some advise

Hiya i need some advise regarding my k series freelander, i brought it about 2 months ago from a second hand car dealer its the first 4x4 i owned and iv had problems from the start. It felt like the brakes were on when reversing and i was told this could be the vcu so i removed the prop and it was fine but i put the prop back on because i wanted the dealer to sort it out as its a bit pointless buying a 4x4 only to take the prop of and have it fwd !!!.
The dealer had it back and says hes put 3 different props and vcu's on and its still the same. Hes now telling me that the ird or the rear diff are borderline going to go ? Is there any truth in this ? Hes also saying now that he wont refund my money so im now stuck with it. He said he would havd it back as a part ex for something else but he wond give me what i payed for it. Im not really sure were i stand with this as iv never purchaced a car for a second hand dealer before. There is also a vibration when the car gets up to 2000 revs could this be the clutch ???

Any help would be great

Chris

I think you should accept that this is a feature of a car with a permanent 4WD with a VCU.

Especially if its got different tyres on the back to those on the front

Were none of these faults present when you test drove the car? Did the dealer give you any kind of warranty with it? If it was sold 'as seen' then I don't see that you've got much room for manoeuvre, however if you're still keen on having a Freelander then I'd imagine it's not too drastic to sort out given the right advice and a bit of extra investment in the car.

What sort of dealer was it?

The sort that has 3 props and VCU's just laying around waiting to be used?

Sounds like a fob off to me.

Even if he did have 3 prop/VCU lying around they might all have been stuffed.
Do the one wheel up test (Google it) and if it fails (mine was seized solid when I bought it and the wheel wouldn't turn at all) get the propshaft off again pronto before it stuffs your IRD, then spend a few hours reading and searching this forum. All the answers are there for you.

I had a 3 month warrenty on the car the car had a knocking on it the second i drove it away so he had it bk and stopped it apparently it was a bush on the back somewere. But after he did that it started vibrating. Hes telling me they can inspect the vcu which is complete bolloks cous there sealed. He said hes changing the tyres to all matching ones on tuesday as they are all different tyres on it but i cant see how thats gonna cure the braking effect in reverse ?.

chris51 said:

I had a 3 month warrenty on the car the car had a knocking on it the second i drove it away so he had it bk and stopped it apparently it was a bush on the back somewere. But after he did that it started vibrating. Hes telling me they can inspect the vcu which is complete bolloks cous there sealed. He said hes changing the tyres to all matching ones on tuesday as they are all different tyres on it but i cant see how thats gonna cure the braking effect in reverse ?.

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They can test it and so can you. 30 seconds searching this forum will tell you how.

lol, they guy doesn't know anything about the car - or very little.

With any car you obviously need things such as the gearbox and differential to be in serviceable condition for it to work properly. With Freelander's AWD transmission there are also 2 other things - a VCU that isn't too stiff and tyres that all match and are pumped to the same pressures. Its not rocket science, and its easy to check.

The tyres are obviously the easiest, and without those its almost pointless changing props/VCU. So that would have been the first thing to change as they obviously don't match. With the tyres sorted - all you have to do is a '1 wheel up test' to see if the VCU is in serviceable or not. If its not - then replace the VCU with a reconditioned one.

Simply going round scrap yards or eBay buying 2nd hand props/VCU is a remote gamble as to whether its going to work. Smashed transmissions is a major reason why Freelanders are scrapped/dismantled - so its likely the VCUs are going to be the reason the car's parts are for sale. Even then, if that's the wat you want to play it - you can always test them - this guy obviously hasn't - he just bunged them on and driven the car - if he has actually tried 3.

If the car has been driven in a poor condition for any length of time - it is possible that the IRD & Diff have been worn to a condition where they are about to 'go'. When they 'go' the bearings are ground down due to the high stresses and then one things get a bit loose, the teeth on the gear start to wear and finally snap/break. To know whether they are about to go you can check the oil in them to see if they have a greyish metalic colour and also see if there's any lateral play on the pinions - ie the bits the props connect to - you need to have the props removed really to get a reliable guide on that.

It should be said though that even in good condition, there can be 'some' braking effect when reversing of full lock.

However....

lenny1234 said:

I think you should accept that this is a feature of a car with a permanent 4WD with a VCU.

Especially if its got different tyres on the back to those on the front

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I do not agree with this.

Firstly - you should NOT run with different tyres front to back.

Secondly - you should not just accept it. Tyres should be sorted and the VCU tested to make sure they are not doing damage to the vehicle.

Thankyou grumpy my thoughts entirley when i get the car back on wednesday if its no better ill have to do those checks myself as this guy is taking me for a ride i think. I have read the posts on vcu testing ali but it seems there is no baseline figures to work off or am i missing somthing ? Whats the best way to do a one wheel up test ?

My penny-worth:
What year and 'milage' is the freelander?
You bought it as a 4WD and you should expect it to be just that, which it is. However, it must also be fit for the purpose it was sold for AND you should expect it to be reliable for a reasonable length of time. You have had problems straight away so I feel you have a strong case. I live in NZ so I'm unsure of what if any consumer law protection you has as redress. Identifying that the IRD / diff' are about to go may not be your problem re my point of being fit for its purpose.

A stiff VCU puts the IRD and diff' under increased stress and as explained above the IRD and or diff' will fail. Critical factors for the VCU is indeed matching tyres, i.e. all the same brand, size and inflation pressure. If a pair new tyres are to be fitted then it's recommended that they be fitted to he rear. A stiff VCU makes it hard to drive with the wheels on either lock, forward or reverse, it will most likely stall unless you give it a bit of throttle. I bad situations the vehicle can bunny hop a bit!

The knocking at the rear was likely as not the front diff' support mount.

So what to do?

matched tyres [including the spare]
VCU replaced [& bearings] good recon can be purchased for £200 over there. There is a reputable supplier who gets lots of positive mentions on this forum.
Diff', g'box & IRD oil changed - to the observer this will give clues as to the condition or level of damage inside each item.

If the FL is a clean and tidy example with low miles [km] then you may want to try and negotiate a 'settlement'. You have already mentioned replacement tyres - good. Would they fit a replacement VCU which you supply? you would have the confidence it is a good one. You would be well advised to have someone independent for the oil changes and assess the condition of the oils and the diff', g'box & IRD that it came from.

Failing a negotiated settlement then you may be best to hand it back for a refund. Again you need to check on your consumer law about that as to your legal rights and entitlements.
Hope that helps.

chris51 said:

Thankyou grumpy my thoughts entirley when i get the car back on wednesday if its no better ill have to do those checks myself as this guy is taking me for a ride i think. I have read the posts on vcu testing ali but it seems there is no baseline figures to work off or am i missing somthing ? Whats the best way to do a one wheel up test ?

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My understanding on the baseline figures for the one wheel up test is 20 to 30 seconds to go from 45º to horizontal is good.

Mine is 2 minutes when cold and about 1.30 minutes when warm. Yes it's very stiff!

htr said:

My understanding on the baseline figures for the one wheel up test is 20 to 30 seconds to go from 45º to horizontal is good.

Mine is 2 minutes when cold and about 1.30 minutes when warm. Yes it's very stiff!

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Mine didn't move at all.

When I took it apart I could see why. The fluid had turned into glue.

htr said:

My penny-worth:
What year and 'milage' is the freelander?
You bought it as a 4WD and you should expect it to be just that, which it is. However, it must also be fit for the purpose it was sold for AND you should expect it to be reliable for a reasonable length of time. You have had problems straight away so I feel you have a strong case. I live in NZ so I'm unsure of what if any consumer law protection you has as redress. Identifying that the IRD / diff' are about to go may not be your problem re my point of being fit for its purpose.

A stiff VCU puts the IRD and diff' under increased stress and as explained above the IRD and or diff' will fail. Critical factors for the VCU is indeed matching tyres, i.e. all the same brand, size and inflation pressure. If a pair new tyres are to be fitted then it's recommended that they be fitted to he rear. A stiff VCU makes it hard to drive with the wheels on either lock, forward or reverse, it will most likely stall unless you give it a bit of throttle. I bad situations the vehicle can bunny hop a bit!

The knocking at the rear was likely as not the front diff' support mount.

So what to do?

matched tyres [including the spare]
VCU replaced [& bearings] good recon can be purchased for £200 over there. There is a reputable supplier who gets lots of positive mentions on this forum.
Diff', g'box & IRD oil changed - to the observer this will give clues as to the condition or level of damage inside each item.

If the FL is a clean and tidy example with low miles [km] then you may want to try and negotiate a 'settlement'. You have already mentioned replacement tyres - good. Would they fit a replacement VCU which you supply? you would have the confidence it is a good one. You would be well advised to have someone independent for the oil changes and assess the condition of the oils and the diff', g'box & IRD that it came from.

Failing a negotiated settlement then you may be best to hand it back for a refund. Again you need to check on your consumer law about that as to your legal rights and entitlements.
Hope that helps.

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Its a 51 plate and it has 117000 on the clock. No mention of a vcu change in the paper work, i did ask for a refund but he said they dont give refunds on second hand cars and i should expect a few problems with a car of that age lol thats not what he said when he was selling it to me.

chris51 said:

Its a 51 plate and it has 117000 on the clock. No mention of a vcu change in the paper work, i did ask for a refund but he said they dont give refunds on second hand cars and i should expect a few problems with a car of that age lol thats not what he said when he was selling it to me.

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Read crock of **** in general section

tell him you are going to citizen advice and do go you are entitled to your money back and tell them everything they will help you .

teddywood1 said:

tell him you are going to citizen advice and do go you are entitled to your money back and tell them everything they will help you .

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Absolutely.
You are legally entitled to a full refund.
From what you say it seems clear you are being mugged off.

Well ill go on wed and see what he says at leats iv got some good advise to go off now.
Thankyou for the advise guys ill keep ya posted

Hiya

Been to get my freelander back today and got a load more fob offs in the process, on arrival I asked if the original problem had been found and if so was it fixed now the response was that the 4x4 garage had tested the vcu doing a 1 wheel up test and it passed and that the stiffness whilst reversing full lock is completely normal for a 1.8 petrol freelander And that its a pretty standard thing with them. I also asked if he had fixed the vibration problem as the car vibrates at around the 40 mph mark and his response was no, so I then asked if he had changed the tyres like he said he would and his response was he had took the wheels and tyres of another freelander and there was no difference.

So they have had the car for 2 weeks and found out nothing basically, he also said that different tyres all round is no problem.? I Feel like I'm fighting a losing battle with this dealers it's been in 3 times already and I've only had it 2 months. I just don't trust the guy !!! And I don't know if he is even having the car looked at or not.

Not sure how to move forward from here.

Tyres must match
Tyres must have the largest rolling diameter on the rear
There is a small braking effect even with a known good vcu

Vibration could be anything but my money would be on the vcu bearings.

Well he might just be telling the truth about the VCU - you'll have to do a test for yourself to find out the answer to that and to see if it should be taken further.

As for the tyres, they should all have the same rolling diameter - which basically means to be safe, they should all be the same make & model due to differences between manufacturer and models within manufacturer. I think LR quote a maximum allowable difference in diameter of 2% - so once again you could measure the difference from the wheel center to ground - but doing that within the accuracies allowed will be very difficult.

If things need taking further then I suppose its Citizens Advice or Trading Standards. If the VCU is knackered or the tyres are incorrect then the car can not reasonably be used as a 4WD - so you should expect that to be fixed. As for the vibration, although it is an obvious fault, I'd say it depends on how bad the vibration is and weight that up against how much you paid for a 51 plate car.