Grinding Brake Pedal

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macadman

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6
All,

Brand new to Land Rovers and this forum and looking to pull on your collective experience please. I have a 2001 (Y) 1.8 Petrol 3dr Freelander with 56K on the clock. No issues thus far (electrics, mechanical or leaks), no warning lights, 12 months MOT and just had a major service. However......I've just had the front nearside ABS ring replaced and now there is a grinding through the brake pedal just before the vehicle comes to a complete stand still. Pads and discs are fine. TC/ABS and HD lights are all off - nothing showing on the diagnostic check at the garage. The grinding doesn’t happen whilst braking, there is no screeching and the brake pedal isn’t pulsing as though the ABS is trying to kick in. This is a very metallic grind just before stopping. My garage is at a loss. There are no leaks from the brake cylinder, the pedal isn’t spongy. Any ideas??

Thanks in advance.
 
"The grinding doesn’t happen whilst braking,there is a grinding through the brake pedal"

I'm a bit confused. What was the outcome?
 
Would also be interested in any update on this - have exactly the same grinding symptoms. Have changed pads and disc, no change. Severe grind just on last few meters of coming to a stop, otherwise braking good
 
macadman said:
All,

Brand new to Land Rovers and this forum and looking to pull on your collective experience please. I have a 2001 (Y) 1.8 Petrol 3dr Freelander with 56K on the clock. No issues thus far (electrics, mechanical or leaks), no warning lights, 12 months MOT and just had a major service. However......I've just had the front nearside ABS ring replaced and now there is a grinding through the brake pedal just before the vehicle comes to a complete stand still. Pads and discs are fine. TC/ABS and HD lights are all off - nothing showing on the diagnostic check at the garage. The grinding doesn’t happen whilst braking, there is no screeching and the brake pedal isn’t pulsing as though the ABS is trying to kick in. This is a very metallic grind just before stopping. My garage is at a loss. There are no leaks from the brake cylinder, the pedal isn’t spongy. Any ideas??

Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...

My thoughts: The ABS reluctor ring is slightly misaligned relative to the centre line of the ABS sensor, therefore at low driveshaft speed the output of the ABS sensor is reduced to the point where the ABS system is assuming that the associated wheel has stopped rotating due to sliding on mud, ice, snow etc. The ABS system will then apply/release braking effort to that wheel in an attempt to prevent skidding. At such low vehicle speeds this causes the driver to experience a brake 'grinding' effect.
 
Further thoughts: Relatively easy to prove if there is an ABS system problem. Disconnect the ABS sensor two pin plug in the ABS harness from the affected wheel, this will of course give the 'hat trick' of warning lights on the dash but more importantly this will disable ABS system operation, now drive the vehicle and if the brake grinding effect does not re-occur during low speed braking then attention can be given to reluctor ring location relative to the ABS sensor position in the hub.
 
Dann said:
Further thoughts: Relatively easy to prove if there is an ABS system problem. Disconnect the ABS sensor two pin plug in the ABS harness from the affected wheel, this will of course give the 'hat trick' of warning lights on the dash but more importantly this will disable ABS system operation, now drive the vehicle and if the brake grinding effect does not re-occur during low speed braking then attention can be given to reluctor ring location relative to the ABS sensor position in the hub.
Click to expand...

You could just take the fuse out and not put a fault in it!
 
This is another problem I had about a year ago, it really ****ed me off for weeks. Same symptoms, braking was fine until the last few yards before stopping, sort of a grinding noise just like a pad was down to the metal and scraping the disc. I checked the discs several times and they looked fine and smooth. I changed the pads even though they had 6mm left on them, but no change . Frustrated, I bought new discs and pads from fleabay, and after fitting them it went completely. I think it was just poor quality cast iron on the old discs, and pads were shaving more metal off than they should, another symptom was very dirty wheels with the excess disc dust.
 
your problem will be with the abs sensor when changing the abs ring the abs sensor should always be removed and pushed back in until it stops as soon as you move be it forwards or back wards the sensor will move slightly so it is a fraction away from the ring this has not been done and now the sensor will have to be replaced hope this helps
 
Excellent logic! OK - removed fuse, and no change so that's the ABS ruled out. To my mind ther are only 4 things that could cause 'grinding' - bearings, driveshaft, ABS, brakes (discs and/or pads) - there's not much else that goes round and round down there. Unless it's some weird IRD thing, but it's so dependent on brake pedal application that I don't think so. So what's next? Or better still, what's the best order to apply good old trial and error technique? I suppose I could try canging the pads agaian, might be a good test, but doesn't really make sense. How about some strange thing like steering knuckle joints? Either way any thoughts much appreciated. Thanks, Rafe
 
teddywood1 said:
your problem will be with the abs sensor when changing the abs ring the abs sensor should always be removed and pushed back in until it stops as soon as you move be it forwards or back wards the sensor will move slightly so it is a fraction away from the ring this has not been done and now the sensor will have to be replaced hope this helps
Click to expand...

Totally agree with Teddy.

I just changed a front wheel bearing at a mates garage.His son came over to assist and tried to remove the ABS sensor from the hub.
His Dad stopped him and we disconnected in under the bonnet.
However he must have disturbed it as the ABS cuts in sometimes when coming to a stop.
I will try tapping the sensor back in when I have the wheel off again.
 
LR advise removing the ABS sensor from the hub assembly whilst the wheel bearing is being replaced to avoid damage to the internal inductive coil due to the inevitable shocks travelling through the hub during disassembly etc. The sensitivity of the ABS sensor may be reduced causing a spurious 'wheel locked and skidding' signal which would trigger ABS operation to that wheel during very low speed braking, which is felt as a 'grinding' through the brake pedal.
 
Dann said:
LR advise removing the ABS sensor from the hub assembly whilst the wheel bearing is being replaced to avoid damage to the internal inductive coil due to the inevitable shocks travelling through the hub during disassembly etc. The sensitivity of the ABS sensor may be reduced causing a spurious 'wheel locked and skidding' signal which would trigger ABS operation to that wheel during very low speed braking, which is felt as a 'grinding' through the brake pedal.
Click to expand...

Its a minor irritation compared with forking out for a new ABS sensor.It was well
tight.
If Landrover really cared they would have made them easier to remove.
I did buy the copper sleeve for refitting,but never got to use it.

Has anybody got an easy way of removing the sensors from the hub.
 
if they have been in there for more thank a couple of years probably 4 years they will be stuck you need to take the hub off and get a punch and hammer it out i tried without taking the hub of but could not do it .
 
Even when 'copper-slip' is applied to the ABS sensors during fitting they subsequently resist all efforts to remove them by twisting and pulling and then most people resort to 'Mole-grips' or hub removal to hammer them out which generally destroys the sensor.
 
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