Beast o Bodmin
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wack a v8 in it..
Freelander TD4 Lack Of Power
- Thread starter Alan C
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thas not even amusing............
Chaser
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Can you hear the turbo spooling up?
I know you have checked the vacuum hoses but did you check if any were blocked?
Can you see any movement of the control mechanism from the actuator when you floor the throttle?
Alan C
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I can hear the turbo spooling up, but didn't check that the mechanism on it is moving as the revs rise. There won't be much turbo presure in neutral anyway, the engine needs to be under load for max turbo boost, and I'm not hanging under the car to see if this happens with the wife driving!
Had a chance to remove the low presure fuel sensor plug and test drive. Interesting results. The engine seems to make normal power from tickover, standing start, changes up a gear or two then runs out of power and back to usual fault. However, let the engine idle for a few seconds (i.e. let car coast for a bit), then open throttle, power is back, but again is lost after about 4 or 5 seconds. The fault is now very pronounced, can repeat it easily, much more pronounced than with the sensor connected, and more power available. It seems as if it's running out of fuel, so could well be the fuel pump?
On a different note, look what I found when I was looking for the fuel pipes on the chassis leg, ontop of the anti-roll bar mounting:
Had a chance to remove the low presure fuel sensor plug and test drive. Interesting results. The engine seems to make normal power from tickover, standing start, changes up a gear or two then runs out of power and back to usual fault. However, let the engine idle for a few seconds (i.e. let car coast for a bit), then open throttle, power is back, but again is lost after about 4 or 5 seconds. The fault is now very pronounced, can repeat it easily, much more pronounced than with the sensor connected, and more power available. It seems as if it's running out of fuel, so could well be the fuel pump?
On a different note, look what I found when I was looking for the fuel pipes on the chassis leg, ontop of the anti-roll bar mounting:
I was wondering what was klunking as I pulled off, now I know. But where the heck did it come from, appears to be a 7" long piece of 1" iron pipe! 
Anyway, change low presure fuel pump next?
Alan C
ming
SPACE TWOT
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UM . . . . .CAN I HAVE IT BACK PLEEZE [TRATTER DETECTOR ZAP MOD] Any -hows check yer fuel pmps as you will be surprised how many times they are not checked as they have a habbitt of going weak un causing havock wiff everyfing. . . . .un the code detectors cannot say they are working weak. . . .its either yes there werkin or no they int. . . . no in between,so yes dont dissmiss them. . . . . . .
ratty
I'm not special I'm limited edition
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From the results you are describing it sounds like your low pressure pump is cream crackered.
Hi! Im new to this site so hi everyone! Ive got a 04 freelander td4 (102,000mls) with what seems to be a MAJOR problem....It starts fine,but when you try to rev it it wont rev past about 2400rpm and puts out white smoke. MIL comes on only when you rev it but no codes stored. Have replaced fuel filter,crankcase breather filter and low press pump, had the injectors tested-these ok. I have also had the fuel pump off and tested,this was ok too.Have checked injector wiring for chaffing but found nothing.Ive also have the turbo and actuator tested, with the same guy testing the boost control solonoid which he said was fine. Ive checked all boost pipes and replaced all vacuum pipes to no avail PLEASE HELP!:doh:
PLEASE HELP!:doh:Shropshire Hippo
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just seen your post , looks like I have a boost controll salenoid coming for nothing ! also at my wits end , if this does not fix mine I don't know whether to continue or not
Alan C
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Hi and welcome, though I'm newish too!
As your MIL is lighting up, you'll definately have fault codes stored in the engine ECU. For starters you'll need to get access to the fault codes, so either someone with an uptodate ODB scanner or proper diagnostics will be a major help here. Else it's an educated guessing game, and simply replacing everything, much as I'm having to do due to the absence of a fault code gets very expensive With the fault codes we can look up possible causes and so make more educated guesses as to the fault. Can you explain how your turbo and actuator were tested?
Alan C
As your MIL is lighting up, you'll definately have fault codes stored in the engine ECU. For starters you'll need to get access to the fault codes, so either someone with an uptodate ODB scanner or proper diagnostics will be a major help here. Else it's an educated guessing game, and simply replacing everything, much as I'm having to do due to the absence of a fault code gets very expensive
With the fault codes we can look up possible causes and so make more educated guesses as to the fault. Can you explain how your turbo and actuator were tested?Alan C
Alan C
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Hi Shropshire Hippo,
Don't loose heart yet! It's a component you haven't changed, so it's worth a try. I've ordered a fuel pump, again in the hope it'll cure my fault, without a fault code I'm pretty much stabbing in the dark. What's not been changed must be where the fault is, logically, for both of us!
Alan C
Don't loose heart yet! It's a component you haven't changed, so it's worth a try. I've ordered a fuel pump, again in the hope it'll cure my fault, without a fault code I'm pretty much stabbing in the dark. What's not been changed must be where the fault is, logically, for both of us!
Alan C
Hi! Im new to this site so hi everyone! Ive got a 04 freelander td4 (102,000mls) with what seems to be a MAJOR problem....It starts fine,but when you try to rev it it wont rev past about 2400rpm and puts out white smoke. MIL comes on only when you rev it but no codes stored. Have replaced fuel filter,crankcase breather filter and low press pump, had the injectors tested-these ok. I have also had the fuel pump off and tested,this was ok too.Have checked injector wiring for chaffing but found nothing.Ive also have the turbo and actuator tested, with the same guy testing the boost control solonoid which he said was fine. Ive checked all boost pipes and replaced all vacuum pipes to no avail
:welcome2:
RobBentley
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Our TD4 has never seemed very punchy above 3k/rpm. Is this normal on these engines? Ours is remapped so I expected more... and getting from 3300rpm to redline takes FOR EVER - although its very punchy low down.
When I rev it (stood still) you can hear the turbo, but, I think I can hear air pressure. I'm guessing this isn't normal? Im suspecting im loosing bost somewhere...
When I rev it (stood still) you can hear the turbo, but, I think I can hear air pressure. I'm guessing this isn't normal? Im suspecting im loosing bost somewhere...
Hi mintcherrie! thanks for your welcome! I dont suppose youve ever come across this disaster before?
Chaser
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Alan, it seems you don't believe me. Trust me if you turbo is ok you will see the actuator mechanism move when you snap the throttle wide open and as the rpm increases it will move back again. It's easily viewed from under the osf wheelarch. On a VVT it's a speed control device not a wastegate and so no need to simulate maximum boost.
Another check you could do is with the engine idling take the vac hose that comes from the vacuum reservoir off the solenoid and put it to the actuator (bypassing the solenoid) and you should see the actuator linkage move and hear a slight change in the sound of the exhaust.
Thankfully no hanging under the car is necessary.
Alan C
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Got the new wheel arch fuel pump, will change it over tomorrow hopefully, as I'd ordered it prior to actually checking the turbo mechanism. If this doesn't cure the fault then next is to check the turbo as Chaser has suggested. If this appers OK, then what? Looking through the Land Rover parts catalogue, I noticed that this car actually has 2 low presure fuel pumps, 1 of which is located in tank, the other which I have a replacement for is in the O/S/R wheel arch. As I'm currently suspecting a weak pump, how does one know which pump to replace first? If a pump has totally failed, I guess this is easier to diagnose. I thought the later TD4s didn't have an in-tank pump?
Alan C
Alan C
Chaser
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Mmm, there's been lots of debate on whether or not later models have intank pumps. From what I can find out later ones have some kind of venturi pick up (? haven't looked at one yet) so still expensive. Don't think they fail though, they only have two pin connector for the fuel sender so no electrics no pump. There is a pick up strainer/filter in there though that you could check, only a 30min job!
Alan C
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There's not a fuel tank pump on this car, only 2 wires on the unit, so just the level sensor.
Changed the LP fuel pump, and also checked the turbo mechanism, all working fine. Except the engine power, it's still poor. I also did a leak-down test on the injectors, just cos I could, and they're fine. Then I changed the fuel presure regulator on the end of the high presure fuel rail. Still got the engine problem. There's not much else I can change now! Disconnecting the MAF sensor still enables the engine to run pretty much as normal, so this must rule out the fule and turbo systems, leaving either the MAF or ECU? The MAF is brand new, the Land Rover dealer is getting me another one just in case this new one is faulty, but I doubt I have a faulty Pierberg unit, and a faulty old unit and a faulty new one! What do I do??????
Alan C
Changed the LP fuel pump, and also checked the turbo mechanism, all working fine. Except the engine power, it's still poor. I also did a leak-down test on the injectors, just cos I could, and they're fine. Then I changed the fuel presure regulator on the end of the high presure fuel rail. Still got the engine problem. There's not much else I can change now! Disconnecting the MAF sensor still enables the engine to run pretty much as normal, so this must rule out the fule and turbo systems, leaving either the MAF or ECU? The MAF is brand new, the Land Rover dealer is getting me another one just in case this new one is faulty, but I doubt I have a faulty Pierberg unit, and a faulty old unit and a faulty new one! What do I do??????
Alan C
Hi Alan,
Just a sideways look at the problem - When Greenie was having an awful time getting his TD4 going, one item in his thread stuck in my mind re. a filter in the HP pump. :scratching_chin:
Quote: from Greenie's thread
Originally Posted by Chaser (from RoverRon site)
8) MICROFILTER
There is a microfilter in the inlet to the high pressure pump which has been known to become partially clogged causing erratic performance, loss of power and engine cutting out. Remove the HP regulator to access it
Originally Posted by Ratty
Chaser...
You might have summit there chaser. The company I work for run a fleet of about 40 Iveco turbo daileys. They were going through High pressure fuel pumps at the rate of 1 to 2 per vehicle per year. We found that the micro filter was blocking with swarf and causing the pump failures. If memory serves me right it was filtering to 6000 microns. The filter was was tiny (shaped like a top hat and probaby about 3mm in diameter and 5mm long). Since we have started removing these prior to fitting (about 9 or 10 months now) NONE of the pumps that has had the micro filter removed has failed.
If the HP filter is 'blocking' then on low demand the LP pump may cope, as the demand increases you may reach a balance point where the engine is fuel starved?
Worth a look? :confused2:
TD John
Just a sideways look at the problem - When Greenie was having an awful time getting his TD4 going, one item in his thread stuck in my mind re. a filter in the HP pump. :scratching_chin:
Quote: from Greenie's thread
Originally Posted by Chaser (from RoverRon site)
8) MICROFILTER
There is a microfilter in the inlet to the high pressure pump which has been known to become partially clogged causing erratic performance, loss of power and engine cutting out. Remove the HP regulator to access it
Originally Posted by Ratty
Chaser...
You might have summit there chaser. The company I work for run a fleet of about 40 Iveco turbo daileys. They were going through High pressure fuel pumps at the rate of 1 to 2 per vehicle per year. We found that the micro filter was blocking with swarf and causing the pump failures. If memory serves me right it was filtering to 6000 microns. The filter was was tiny (shaped like a top hat and probaby about 3mm in diameter and 5mm long). Since we have started removing these prior to fitting (about 9 or 10 months now) NONE of the pumps that has had the micro filter removed has failed.
If the HP filter is 'blocking' then on low demand the LP pump may cope, as the demand increases you may reach a balance point where the engine is fuel starved?
Worth a look? :confused2:
TD John
Alan C
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Hi there,
Certainly another thing to check. My gut feeling is this isn't blocked, as with the MAF disconnected the engine runs pretty much normally, so proving the fuel system, turbo and exhaust systems are operating normally. However, as with most things, what's not been proved to be operating must be where the fault is, once everything else has been eliminated! I have the modified HP fuel presure sensor wiring harness to fit (LR recommend I change this even though I can't see a fault with it), this entails removing the inlet manifold to access the harness, I can't even see where it goes! And the last unchanged sensor is the MAP sensor in the inlet manifold. I also have another brand new replacement MAF sensor on loan from LR just to prove the other new one wasn't faulty. So a few more things to try yet. If all this proves fruitless, then it's either faulty wiring or a duff ECU. I do have a spare engine ECU, but it's second hand and these are coded to the vehicle supposedly for life, though I think I've found someone who can copy the contents of my old one to the new one therefor making a duplicate. I'll keep this topic updated as I go along!
Alan C
Certainly another thing to check. My gut feeling is this isn't blocked, as with the MAF disconnected the engine runs pretty much normally, so proving the fuel system, turbo and exhaust systems are operating normally. However, as with most things, what's not been proved to be operating must be where the fault is, once everything else has been eliminated! I have the modified HP fuel presure sensor wiring harness to fit (LR recommend I change this even though I can't see a fault with it), this entails removing the inlet manifold to access the harness, I can't even see where it goes! And the last unchanged sensor is the MAP sensor in the inlet manifold. I also have another brand new replacement MAF sensor on loan from LR just to prove the other new one wasn't faulty. So a few more things to try yet. If all this proves fruitless, then it's either faulty wiring or a duff ECU. I do have a spare engine ECU, but it's second hand and these are coded to the vehicle supposedly for life, though I think I've found someone who can copy the contents of my old one to the new one therefor making a duplicate. I'll keep this topic updated as I go along!
Alan C
Shropshire Hippo
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Please do Alan , ours sounds as though they have the same fault . Although mine has shown as a boost pressure fault and limp home mode keeps cutting in keeping speed down to 40 or 50 mph . This has only just started happening after a couple of months of trouble , does yours do this ? The auto spark is coming tomorrow to try the solenoid so will let you know if this does not cure it and if he finds out what is .
atvb Paul.
atvb Paul.
