Freelander 1 Freelander EV

2 x large washers for each side and obvs the nuts too. I had to cut the old bolt and drill and punch out the sections in the hub. Get new nuts and bolts for the subframe end while at it. I have a diagram with part numbers somewhere. Will look.

Here you go..

andyfreelandy said:

Here you go..
View attachment 314369

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Thanks mate.

So after checking out ebay and several online sellers I went with LR Direct. They had good prices for the parts but more importantly did not charge stupid money for delivery to NI.
I'm not looking forward to the fight involved in getting the old hub bolt out but that's a problem for next week.

Here's hoping they don't cancel the order or contact me saying how they need to charge extra to ship across the water. It's happened before!

I'm not going to touch the front wheel until I have the back sorted as doing so would leave the car pulling badly. At the moment it is probably crabing a bit but I can live with that for a little while.

Alibro said:

So after checking out ebay and several online sellers I went with LR Direct. They had good prices for the parts but more importantly did not charge stupid money for delivery to NI.
I'm not looking forward to the fight involved in getting the old hub bolt out but that's a problem for next week.

Here's hoping they don't cancel the order or contact me saying how they need to charge extra to ship across the water. It's happened before!

I'm not going to touch the front wheel until I have the back sorted as doing so would leave the car pulling badly. At the moment it is probably crabing a bit but I can live with that for a little while.

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I mainly use LR Direct and have found them good on price and shipping - in choice price and speed. Their website is pretty good to use as well - but only if you know the part numbers.

I have had times when I've had to change make of product after the order is placed when they come back and say that my original is not in stock. They have also sent wrong parts - I ordered brake shoes and they sent me ones for a D3. There was no quibbles though, they sent the correct shoes out straight away and I think I still have the D3 ones in a box somewhere.

Who says you can't tow with an EV?
Sadly no photo's as it was ****ing down at the time but today I used the Freelander EV to tow a big heavy horse box with a couple hundred kilos of hay on board.
OK I maybe couldn't have towed it very far but it worked perfectly for the few miles I needed. It also saved me burning out the clutch in SWMBO's Kuga which has seen better days.

Alibro said:

Who says you can't tow with an EV?
Sadly no photo's as it was ****ing down at the time but today I used the Freelander EV to tow a big heavy horse box with a couple hundred kilos of hay on board.
OK I maybe couldn't have towed it very far but it worked perfectly for the few miles I needed. It also saved me burning out the clutch in SWMBO's Kuga which has seen better days.

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More and more EVs are able to tow Ali, often better than an ICE vehicle. What towing does do is cut the range, but that effects an ICE vehicle too.

I've been looking at getting an EV myself recently ALI.
I'm thinking the Ionic 5 looks about the best value for money at the moment, now that Fisker are about to collapse.

Nodge68 said:

More and more EVs are able to tow Ali, often better than an ICE vehicle. What towing does do is cut the range, but that effects an ICE vehicle too.

I've been looking at getting an EV myself recently ALI.
I'm thinking the Ionic 5 looks about the best value for money at the moment, now that Fisker are about to collapse.

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Are you talking new or used? The waiting list for Kia and Hyundai EV's used to be stupidly long but I'm not sure now.
I know they are kind of 'Marmite' but I love Tesla's. The Model 3 would not be practical for me as I need an estate or hatch but the Model Y would be perfect. Just too expensive for now. The Kia eNiro would be a great car. Great range fantastic room inside and nice to sit in. The only negative I'm aware of is a somewhat small boot.
The Ionic 5 is an amazing car from what I've heard but I've never been in one.
The way I see it every house with access to home charging and two cars at least one of them should be electric. That way when you go on the once every ten years road trip through mountains where no chargers are available then you have the ICE car.
For the rest of the time an electric car makes much more sense.
As far as value for money goes MG's are good value.

I'm thinking new on a lease Ali. There are some good deals on Hyundai at the moment. I'm just trying to convince the wife that we need one to replace the FL2. I like the Model Y, but the wife hates them, so we'll have to get something she doesn't dislike, which is basically the Ionic 5 at the moment, or the Cupra Born, which is just too small to be practical with uni transport duties coming up.

I would really love to do that but while I'm not working full time I always shy away from financing anything and the depreciation on new cars is just to much for me. Have you considered getting something a year or so old on a lease or a demonstration model? It might save quite a few £k's

Can you still get the Skoda Enyaq? I think they stopped making them but I heard they were one of the best of that VAG batch.
Or the ID4 which is supposed to be much better now. Or the Polestar or the Volvo EX30? I'm sure there are others.
Not suggesting any of them are better than the Ionic 5 which is one of the best, but just throwing out names in case the Hyundai is hard to get.

Nodge68 said:

More and more EVs are able to tow Ali, often better than an ICE vehicle. What towing does do is cut the range, but that effects an ICE vehicle too.

I've been looking at getting an EV myself recently ALI.
I'm thinking the Ionic 5 looks about the best value for money at the moment, now that Fisker are about to collapse.

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I've been running around in a BMW i4, this last 14 months, and I really like it. They can tow 1600kg, but the range does take an almighty hit.

A relative had a Telsa S P100D, towing a fairly light, but boxy trailer cut his range down TO between 25 and 30% of the range doing the same trip without the trailer!

His next car was one of those Mercedes SUV+Coupe things, with the twin turbo petrol V8. Towing with that on the same trip reduced his range BY about 20%.

AllanWorms said:

A relative had a Telsa S P100D, towing a fairly light, but boxy trailer cut his range down TO between 25 and 30% of the range doing the same trip without the trailer!

His next car was one of those Mercedes SUV+Coupe things, with the twin turbo petrol V8. Towing with that on the same trip reduced his range BY about 20%.

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A lot of this will be guesstimating but probably not too far from the truth.
I used 20V to drive 15.5 miles and was towing the trailer for half of that distance.
Normally I would have used around 15V to drive those miles as I started at 390V.
So if we say 7.5 miles dropped the voltage by 7.5V (this is normal) then the second 7.5 miles dropped the voltage by 12.5V
This would give a reduction in range of around (if my maths is correct) 40%,
Given the weight and size of the trailer I'd expect a similar drop in range for an ICE car, the trailer was stupidly heavy even empty and my wife's 140hp Ford Kuga struggles with it.
Also in my case around half the miles were through a village and the rest were below 55mph so weight was a bigger issue than wind resistance.
For you're friend there are many variables.
Was the Tesla towing at motorway speeds? Was the reduction in range accurate? Was he able to drive at the same speed in the ICE car? Was the ICE car reduction in range accurate?
Tesla's have amazing range because of their efficiency rather than their battery size so they will be disproportionately more effected by towing a box trailer than an already thirsty and boxy SUV. Maybe an EQE would have seen a closer change in range.

Alibro said:

A lot of this will be guesstimating but probably not too far from the truth.
I used 20V to drive 15.5 miles and was towing the trailer for half of that distance.
Normally I would have used around 15V to drive those miles as I started at 390V.
So if we say 7.5 miles dropped the voltage by 7.5V (this is normal) then the second 7.5 miles dropped the voltage by 12.5V
This would give a reduction in range of around (if my maths is correct) 40%,

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But you're starting with a car designed 30 years ago.

Its probably already displacing more air than a modern car for the trailer to follow through!

If you calculate that you are losing 40%, I'm sure a more slippery EV would lose more.

I haven't towed big/heavy stuff over long enough distances to work out how it effects consumption, but I've never noticed much noticeable difference towing a wide long boat trailer laden with boat and camping gear. That's in my L Series F1. However, in my D1 V8 one day we headed off to Hanmer, which is an hour and a half north west of Chch, into a howling Norwester, with stuff on the roof rails... and I'm sure the accelerator was push twice as far down to go probably 20ks under the speed we'd normally travel at!

GrumpyGel said:

But you're starting with a car designed 30 years ago.

Its probably already displacing more air than a modern car for the trailer to follow through!

If you calculate that you are losing 40%, I'm sure a more slippery EV would lose more.

I haven't towed big/heavy stuff over long enough distances to work out how it effects consumption, but I've never noticed much noticeable difference towing a wide long boat trailer laden with boat and camping gear. That's in my L Series F1. However, in my D1 V8 one day we headed off to Hanmer, which is an hour and a half north west of Chch, into a howling Norwester, with stuff on the roof rails... and I'm sure the accelerator was push twice as far down to go probably 20ks under the speed we'd normally travel at!

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My daughter has been riding ponies and horses for almost 20 years now so we have a fair bit of experience towing horse boxes and although we never calculated it scientifically the fuel consumption suffered a LOT. We now have a converted van and it is much easier on fuel than towing a trailer.
This is the biggest heaviest horse box we ever towed even empty so I was really pleased that the EV towed it so well.
TBH my biggest concern was the coupler that Nodge and I built and possibly overheating something because of the constant current draw.

I think we're conditioned to think that the bet MPG we can get out of whichever ICE is "100% efficiency" and then when we use it for towing, we say things like "it was only 20% worse". However, the bar is much higher for an EV. An ICE wastes most of the energy you put into it anyway, so the drop in efficiency is from a very low starting point. An EV, by comparison, REALLY feels any increase in resistance to movement.

Alibro said:

My daughter has been riding ponies and horses for almost 20 years now so we have a fair bit of experience towing horse boxes and although we never calculated it scientifically the fuel consumption suffered a LOT. We now have a converted van and it is much easier on fuel than towing a trailer.
This is the biggest heaviest horse box we ever towed even empty so I was really pleased that the EV towed it so well.
TBH my biggest concern was the coupler that Nodge and I built and possibly overheating something because of the constant current draw.

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Yes, a lot of this is a design for purpose type of thing.

The campers at work are really good on fuel. I'm sure the economy on them, even though they are permanently loaded to near their gross weight with fit out, water, people and their belongings is better than a less powerful "more economic" car would be towing the same in the form of a caravan.

Its similar to when I used to pile around the UK motorway system with my job. My first company car was a 1.3 Escort which was "more economic" than my 2nd one which was a 1.8 Passat - but I used to get an extra 5mpg out of the Passat than the Escort.

GrumpyGel said:

Yes, a lot of this is a design for purpose type of thing.

The campers at work are really good on fuel. I'm sure the economy on them, even though they are permanently loaded to near their gross weight with fit out, water, people and their belongings is better than a less powerful "more economic" car would be towing the same in the form of a caravan.

Its similar to when I used to pile around the UK motorway system with my job. My first company car was a 1.3 Escort which was "more economic" than my 2nd one which was a 1.8 Passat - but I used to get an extra 5mpg out of the Passat than the Escort.

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LOL, my first car was a company Mini van. I've no idea what the fuel economy was but suspect pretty poor as I used the accelerator pedal like a switch.

Avocet1 said:

I think we're conditioned to think that the bet MPG we can get out of whichever ICE is "100% efficiency" and then when we use it for towing, we say things like "it was only 20% worse". However, the bar is much higher for an EV. An ICE wastes most of the energy you put into it anyway, so the drop in efficiency is from a very low starting point. An EV, by comparison, REALLY feels any increase in resistance to movement.

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Absolutely spot on. Even a good efficient diesel literally throws away ⅔ of the energy from the fuel as waste heat. A good EV is above 90% energy efficient, meaning only 10% of the energy is wasted.
So when towing, the reduction in range is more evident compared to ICE, simply because the EV doesn't waste anything like the energy that the ICE does.
If ICE was 90% efficient, there would also be a huge reduction in range when towing.

Of course if ICE was 90% efficient, there would be less need for EVs, but that's another argument for another thread.

GrumpyGel said:

But you're starting with a car designed 30 years ago.

Its probably already displacing more air than a modern car for the trailer to follow through!

If you calculate that you are losing 40%, I'm sure a more slippery EV would lose more.

I haven't towed big/heavy stuff over long enough distances to work out how it effects consumption, but I've never noticed much noticeable difference towing a wide long boat trailer laden with boat and camping gear. That's in my L Series F1. However, in my D1 V8 one day we headed off to Hanmer, which is an hour and a half north west of Chch, into a howling Norwester, with stuff on the roof rails... and I'm sure the accelerator was push twice as far down to go probably 20ks under the speed we'd normally travel at!

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The Coefficient of drag is has the most effect on vehicle range, so effects EV and ICE alike.
The FL1 facelift has a Cd of 0.39 (the FL2 is 0.38), which isn't particularly good compared to a Tesla model 3 Cd of 0.23, but it's much better than something like an original VW beetle Cd of 0.48, even though the beetle is tiny and sloping.

The higher the Cd, the more energy is required to push a vehicle through the air, so the less range for a given energy input.
ICE is so inefficient, that increasing the Cd with a huge trailer makes proportionately less difference to range, than it will in an EV, as EVs are just so much more energy efficient.

In reality both are effected by towing, but an EV will be effected to a greater extent. Cost wise, an EV is still less expensive to fuel even when towing, it's just the range between charges is reduced, requiring more frequent charging stops.
EVs often tow better than ICE, because there's always full torque available, which isn't the case with an ICE.