FL2 Engine Stopped While Driving - Dropped Valve, Engine Swap

Finally, my new engine arrived yesterday and it looks ok. I got the engine and the car into the workshop and began to look it over. My first impressions are that it appears to be well maintained, the accessory belt looks brand new so I'm wondering if the timing belt has been changed recently too.

The engine was from a manual and it still had the clutch attached so I removed it and was surprised to find that it looked very new (the friction plate measures 9mm thick), should an 88k miles car have had a new clutch? I suppose it depends on the driving style of the owner or whether it's done a lot of towing etc??

Next I took off the flywheel only to find it was being held on by 7 bolts, one had been sheared off when the new clutch (and flywheel??) was fitted I assume. Given how tight the other seven bolts were I don't hold out much hope the removing the sheared one without a hell of a fight. Should I try and remove the sheared bolt, rely on 7 bolts to hold the flexplate or swap out the crankshaft for my old one? I don't have much love for option 3 BTW.

The crankshaft seal looks like it has a slight leak so I'm going to replace that and I'm going to take a look at the timing belt and probably replace the crankshaft seal at that end too.

CaptainB said:

Finally, my new engine arrived yesterday and it looks ok. I got the engine and the car into the workshop and began to look it over. My first impressions are that it appears to be well maintained, the accessory belt looks brand new so I'm wondering if the timing belt has been changed recently too.

The engine was from a manual and it still had the clutch attached so I removed it and was surprised to find that it looked very new (the friction plate measures 9mm thick), should an 88k miles car have had a new clutch? I suppose it depends on the driving style of the owner or whether it's done a lot of towing etc??

Next I took off the flywheel only to find it was being held on by 7 bolts, one had been sheared off when the new clutch (and flywheel??) was fitted I assume. Given how tight the other seven bolts were I don't hold out much hope the removing the sheared one without a hell of a fight. Should I try and remove the sheared bolt, rely on 7 bolts to hold the flexplate or swap out the crankshaft for my old one? I don't have much love for option 3 BTW.

The crankshaft seal looks like it has a slight leak so I'm going to replace that and I'm going to take a look at the timing belt and probably replace the crankshaft seal at that end too.

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Hi Paul.
Good news to hear you have received the engine, has the bolt sheered completely flush, no protruding thread to get any purchase on? has for the belts even though they look good personally they would get changed, that way you are starting from your point and not someone else's, also it's going to be easier while the engine is out of the car.

Please do keep us up to date even with photos if possible good luck

Remove the broken stud

Arctic2 said:

Hi Paul.
Good news to hear you have received the engine, has the bolt sheered completely flush, no protruding thread to get any purchase on? has for the belts even though they look good personally they would get changed, that way you are starting from your point and not someone else's, also it's going to be easier while the engine is out of the car.

Please do keep us up to date even with photos if possible good luck

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Yeah, it’s sheared pretty much flush with the crankshaft flange. I’ve got a set of basic bolt extractors but I doubt they will be up to the job. I had to use my breaker bar to get the others out. I’m tempted to start drilling it out and see if I can get enough material out of it to loosen its grip. I think it’s too small to try and weld something on to it (at least not with my welding skills!).

With the broken bolt.

You would be surprised at how tight they are not, they dont/should not bottom out in the hole. The tightness is when they clamp something.
Spray it with loads of release agent, and consider some left hand drills, (have not used any) but they have been know to release a broken stud while drilling.

J

The flywheel bolts are patch bolts, so will still be very tight to remove even once the clamping force is removed.
I'd drill it out using a carbide drill bit 2 mm under sized. However I'd leave the flywheel on as a drilling guide, as you'll want to drill straight in line with the bolt. I'd drill to break through the bottom of the bolt, then spray some release fluid into the hole. At this point I'd use an easy out to see if it's effective at removing the bolt carcass. The drilling operation should heat the bolt enough for the locking compound to be compromised, at least that's the theory.
Good luck.

Nodge68 said:

The flywheel bolts are patch bolts

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Can you please explain this definition.

J

marjon said:

With the broken bolt.

You would be surprised at how tight they are not, they dont/should not bottom out in the hole. The tightness is when they clamp something.
Spray it with loads of release agent, and consider some left hand drills, (have not used any) but they have been know to release a broken stud while drilling.

J

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Great advice, thank you.

I decided to man up and tackle it. I didn't have any left handed drills so I just set about drilling it out with progressively larger bits until I got to 5.5mm and I was only 1mm or so away from the threads. I got out my cheap-o set of extractors and prepared to do battle. Much to my amazement (and relief) it came out much easier than I expected:




With that done I pulled out the crankshaft seal by driving 3 screws into it and pulling them with a claw hammer. Again, it came out easier than expected. I oiled up the replacement seal and pushed it by hand as far as I could then I got a piece of hardwood dowel, rounded over the end and started gently tapping the seal home working my way around the seal.



The last thing I wanted to do today was to get the locking pins in the flex plate and the camshaft so I can set to on the timing belt tomorrow. I slotted the pin in to the flex plate easy enough then removed the timing belt cover and went to put the pin in but to my horror the holes weren't in alignment! I looked at the flex plate again to make sure I hadn't done anything stupid and seemingly I hadn't. After a great deal of head scratching I remembered that it's a 4 stroke engine so I rotated the crank 360 degrees and sure enough the camshaft locking holes aligned beautifully.



By now I was starting to get chilly as it was still below 0deg in the workshop so I just grabbed a few pictures of the timing belt. I totally understand that changing the timing belt is the right thing to do and I will very likely do so but from these pictures can you tell if it has been recently replaced?

marjon said:

Can you please explain this definition.

J

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They have a pre-applied thread lock, known as a "patch" in the fastener industry. This is a dry version of a liquid thread locking fluid, which sort of melts as the bolt is tightened, solidifying again once air is excluded on tightening.
This is why the bolts are disposable items, requiring new bolts be fitted on installation.

Well done.
Looking at that bolt carcass, I'd say the old bolts were refitted after the flywheel was replaced, which a real no no. However it worked in your favour in this case. Incidentally if the flywheel is within spec, it has a value on the second hand market.

Make sure you clean the threads out with brake clean, and make sure you use new bolts correctly torqued as per the LR manual.

Paul you did a good job of getting that bolt out, the belt i would say looks a bit worn on the edges does it have a make on it anywhere, i would still change it, I'm unsure about the belts on my FL2 so have got a gates kit and it will be done as soon has a couple of warm days come our way, there is a possibility that my belts where changed about 2yrs ago but not 100% so it's getting new ones and a water pump.

Arctic2 said:

Paul you did a good job of getting that bolt out, the belt i would say looks a bit worn on the edges does it have a make on it anywhere, i would still change it, I'm unsure about the belts on my FL2 so have got a gates kit and it will be done as soon has a couple of warm days come our way, there is a possibility that my belts where changed about 2yrs ago but not 100% so it's getting new ones and a water pump.

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I did the timing belt yesterday and it looked pretty decent (it was a Gates belt), the water pump was very clean too and the crankshaft pulley bolt came out comparatively easily with just an 18" breaker bar. From this I am thinking that the belt and. pump had been changed and the mechanic didn't use a new crankshaft pulley bolt, just as he hadn't used new flywheel bolts too. Anyway, I have a shiny new Dayco kit in there now so I shouldn't need to worry about it for quite a while yet.

The timing of all this couldn't have been worse really. All those weeks of relatively mild weather I was waiting for an engine and as soon as one arrives the weather turns properly cold! I was freezing when I'd finished up yesterday and it didn't help that I was knelt down the whole time I was working on it, definitely easier than doing the work with the engine in the car though.

Nodge68 said:

Well done.
Looking at that bolt carcass, I'd say the old bolts were refitted after the flywheel was replaced, which a real no no. However it worked in your favour in this case. Incidentally if the flywheel is within spec, it has a value on the second hand market.

Make sure you clean the threads out with brake clean, and make sure you use new bolts correctly torqued as per the LR manual.

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Those bolts were definitely reused, they came out much easier than my original ones but like you said, it worked in my favour when extracting the broken one.

New ones are fitted now and torqued up to spec - 33Nm + 34 deg.

How do I know if the flywheel is within spec? Does it need to be checked on a machine? It looks so clean I can't imagine it's very old and the clutch friction plate has lots of meat on it.

CaptainB said:

I did the timing belt yesterday and it looked pretty decent (it was a Gates belt), the water pump was very clean too and the crankshaft pulley bolt came out comparatively easily with just an 18" breaker bar. From this I am thinking that the belt and. pump had been changed and the mechanic didn't use a new crankshaft pulley bolt, just as he hadn't used new flywheel bolts too. Anyway, I have a shiny new Dayco kit in there now so I shouldn't need to worry about it for quite a while yet.

The timing of all this couldn't have been worse really. All those weeks of relatively mild weather I was waiting for an engine and as soon as one arrives the weather turns properly cold! I was freezing when I'd finished up yesterday and it didn't help that I was knelt down the whole time I was working on it, definitely easier than doing the work with the engine in the car though.


Those bolts were definitely reused, they came out much easier than my original ones but like you said, it worked in my favour when extracting the broken one.

New ones are fitted now and torqued up to spec - 33Nm + 34 deg.

How do I know if the flywheel is within spec? Does it need to be checked on a machine? It looks so clean I can't imagine it's very old and the clutch friction plate has lots of meat on it.

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Sounds like your doing the work by the book, which will eliminate problems later on.

The flywheel checking procedure is in the LR service manual, but if it looks new, it's most likely a new and replacement.
It will have some value as they are very expensive new.
I'm expecting my clutch to be failing soon, and aren't looking forward to buying a new flywheel myself.

Great stuff @CaptainB I've just done a lower arm on the wife's seat ibiza and dropped it for mot. Its too cold to be messing with cars

CaptainB said:

The timing of all this couldn't have been worse really. All those weeks of relatively mild weather I was waiting for an engine and as soon as one arrives the weather turns properly cold! I was freezing when I'd finished up yesterday and it didn't help that I was knelt down the whole time I was working on it, definitely easier than doing the work with the engine in the car though.

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Hi Paul.
I know where you are coming from Friday i put the ORK back on the ramps to remove the Haldex ECU & N373 valve to get them sent off for testing, sent them to Matt at ( https://www.haldexrepairs.co.uk/ ) and my intension was to remove the pump and filter after i had changed the oil just over a week ago.
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Anyways yesterday i started to get under the car only to find it was absolutely freezing so best laid plans, today we have two inches of snow.

sounds like the replacement engine had been looked after, but at least you are 100% sure that the belts have been done now, hopefully you will get a few days break in the weather so you can get the engine back in.

Sorry guys, I've been away from the car and the computer for a few days. The good news is that I finally heard back from the seller of my new engine. I wanted to know the registration number of the donor car so that I could check the MOT history and verify the mileage. He supplied the registration number and while the engine is pretty old (from a 57 plate car) it has only done about 90k miles, which is a little more than the advertised mileage but I'm OK with it.

So hopefully this weekend I'll be able to get back to installing the engine. It's all spruced up and cleaned up ready to be dropped in and connected up again. I did manage the get the torque converter oil seal replaced and slot the TC back into position so I should be all set.

Any tips for getting as much old oil out as possible without having to do any major surgery? I'll maybe do an oil change after a few hundred miles or so as a sort of "flush".

I'm making a checklist of pipes and plugs to re-connect so that I don't miss anything, thankfully as it was a full engine most of them are already connected.

I've read a bit about it and I'm considering blanking the EGR pipe, what do you think? Are there any other jobs that I should do before I drop the engine back the car?

Just drain the old oil overnight, which will getting most of it out. A tiny amount of old oil contamination is of no concern. Make sure you replace the oil filter while the engine is out to save time, and use an OE spec filter.

Do you have the kit to program the injectors and carry out the air path calibration on the new engine?

Nodge68 said:

Just drain the old oil overnight, which will getting most of it out. A tiny amount of old oil contamination is of no concern. Make sure you replace the oil filter while the engine is out to save time, and use an OE spec filter.

Do you have the kit to program the injectors and carry out the air path calibration on the new engine?

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I had the engine on the crane with the sump plug out for a few days and used the levelling bar on the crane to tip the engine slightly. With how cold it has been I don't expect to have got out as much as if I'd drained it when warm but I've only got around 5 litres out, it feels like there's some hiding somewhere. I've cranked the engine around a few times after replacing the timing belt and that loosened up a little more oil.

I've done the oil and fuel filters with Mahle and Coopers respectively which I believe are OE spec.

I have an old laptop to install SDD on and I've bought a Mongoose (clone??) cable , I just need to find the charger for it now .

CaptainB said:

I had the engine on the crane with the sump plug out for a few days and used the levelling bar on the crane to tip the engine slightly. With how cold it has been I don't expect to have got out as much as if I'd drained it when warm but I've only got around 5 litres out, it feels like there's some hiding somewhere. I've cranked the engine around a few times after replacing the timing belt and that loosened up a little more oil.

I've done the oil and fuel filters with Mahle and Coopers respectively which I believe are OE spec.

I have an old laptop to install SDD on and I've bought a Mongoose (clone??) cable , I just need to find the charger for it now .

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I can only ever get about 5.5 litres out of mine from the sump plug, and no more from a pump, which is the way I do it now.

Great news... and some not so great news!

I found myself at a fairly loose end this morning so I decided to get the engine in the car. It was a bit of a faff because I had left my original AC compressor in the car so that I wouldn't have to get the system re-gassed. It turns out that it wasn't particularly straightforward to settle the engine in while the compressor was in the car. I ended up taking the fuel filter back out in order to remove a small plate that's screwed to the top of the oil cooler. That made room for the AC pipe to fit back into it's little nook.

The only other thing I needed to remove was the module on the back of the turbo. It kept fouling on the AC re-gassing port and pipe.

With the engine back in place I started connecting up electrical plugs and pipes and I felt like I was cruising along nicely when I realised there was one really important job that I should have done before dropping the engine back in. My bonfire suddenly felt very much pee'd upon!

My car being an automatic and the new engine coming from a manual, my heart sank when I realised that the wiring harness that came with the new engine doesn't have a connector for the auto gearbox! So guess what my first job will be tomorrow.