Electrical Issues after welding

Hi all

I’ve just picked my discovery td5 up from having my arches welded, he disconnected the battery and left the fuse box connected but moved it out of the way. Also on the passenger side arch the wiring insulation appears to have got hot and melted some of the black insulation but not the wire insulation.

On the way home I noticed I had no dash back lights nor did I have rear tail lights or number plate lights but everything else worked.

I’ve checked fuses but they are all fine.

Does anyone know if the wiring to the above is on the same loom and what the loom that runs over the top of the passenger arch powers ?

Many thanks

To do that job everything has to be striped off the bulkhead inside and out before starting. If you paid a professional to do it take it back and tell them to sort it.

Oh dear. Did you see that the battery was disconnected, or is he just telling you it was to cover his arse ?? The loom needs to be closely inspected and repaired if required. A damaged loom is not good, but at least you know the location of where any possible damage could be.

meego said:

Oh dear. Did you see that the battery was disconnected, or is he just telling you it was to cover his arse ?? The loom needs to be closely inspected and repaired if required. A damaged loom is not good, but at least you know the location of where any possible damage could be.

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I saw a picture of the battery on the floor so that’s certain. As I say both sides were done so need to figure out what wires are related to the Speedo lights and tail lights. Just frustrating. Rang the guy and he wasn’t arsed but I will apply some pressure I think. It was a welder fabricator that did the job a proper firm, he does loads of discovery’s now.

hughdavies said:

To do that job everything has to be striped off the bulkhead inside and out before starting. If you paid a professional to do it take it back and tell them to sort it.

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I paid a welder fabricator who does loads of chassis work on discovery’s now. Rang him he wasn’t best helpful but I will probably suggest I take it to an auto electrician and he foots the bill or part of it at least. I understand issues happen it’s how they are handled that’s remembered.

Read the top half of the invoice from when I had it done---
.

hughdavies said:

To do that job everything has to be striped off the bulkhead inside and out before starting. If you paid a professional to do it take it back and tell them to sort it.

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+1^
You've paid for it to be done, it hasn't been done, properly.
Warning letter giving them a week to rectify before small claims track or , for which you'll need to take it elswhere and get it fixed so you have an amount to take them to court for.
Best of luck

Stanleysteamer said:

+1^
You've paid for it to be done, it hasn't been done, properly.
Warning letter giving them a week to rectify before small claims track or , for which you'll need to take it elswhere and get it fixed so you have an amount to take them to court for.
Best of luck

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Thank you for the helpful response, the trouble is he’s a 2 hour round trip away and really don’t have the time at the moment.

How would you word a letter like that without causing too much tension. Even a contribution or hell an offer to take a look would suffice right now, but to think it will just go away without any input is damn rude to be honest.

disco19 said:

Thank you for the helpful response, the trouble is he’s a 2 hour round trip away and really don’t have the time at the moment.

How would you word a letter like that without causing too much tension. Even a contribution or hell an offer to take a look would suffice right now, but to think it will just go away without any input is damn rude to be honest.

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Normally it is just a question of stating the problem/grievance and that they have a week to come up with a solution before you take it to the SCT.
That will often shift them into a different gear, or so I have found.
You don't have to go and see them. A letter with PO sign for at the other end will do. even if they try to say they didn't get it, it won't make any difference. If you have an email address for them you could put it in an email as that is just as good.
The court will only look upon you a bit askance if you haven't stated the issue to them and given them a chance to correct it. If you have then they, the court, will be fine about it.

Busy at the mo but I'll give the wording some thought and get back to you.

Just a thought, it could be something as simple as a loose connector - you mention the external wrap on the harness shows signs of overheating - but - melted insulation won't cause a break in the copper wiring, it will generally only cause mutual shorts between circuits, occasionally to ground, which will cause the fuse(s) to rupture and sometimes unexpected behaviour. I've never known it to knock out a circuit without there being other noticeable issues.
Maybe get them to agree to fund a mobile vehicle electrician to spend an initial hours investigation to quantify the defect and remedial work required?. I note there is a work line for 'recommission vehicle' - that's the item that has not been completed if there are lights not operating.

disco19 said:

How would you word a letter like

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Do you have legal cover with your car insurance? If so, stop here and get onto them!
If not.....

"Dear .....

Last (date etc) you worked on, and employed others to work on, my vehicle (reg no).

I collected the vehicle and on driving it home discovered that it had faults (list) which were not there when I left it for you to work on.

Following the phone conversation on (date) which led to no satisfactory agreement as to further action by yourselves to rectify the faults I would be grateful if you would respond by (choose a date), in writing or by email, with a reasonable date when you would be willing to take the vehicle back for rectification of this problem in order to complete the job which I paid for in full.

I would be willing to take the vehicle to an auto electician, or have one come out to me, provided you give me written assurance that you will pay his bill. This would probably be quicker and simpler than having to take the vehicle to you then to have to go back to pick it up.

I am giving you this opportunity as I do not wish to have to take this further legally.

Yours etc"

You can't cause less tension, you talked on the phone and that got you the brush off. You are not there to make his life easy you just want what you paid for. There were no "unforeseen problems" and TBH I think as others have said that it will be a relatively simple fix.

You are being reasonable. If you weren't you'd have a bad hand if it came to court action. The costs of the claim would have to be paid for by him, assuming he loses which I very much expect he would.

Cases like this are often resolved by mediation. My last one with B&Q was resolved this way. If not it is usually solved by a judge reading the paperwork. Then you'll get a CCJ against him. If he refuses to pay then you send the bailiffs in, get an attachment of earnings or whatever to get the money off him. TBH it will be a piffling amount, an auto-electrician should find the fault and solve it very quickly.

But I did have to send the bailiffs in to Carphone Warehouse when they owed me £300, so you never know.

Check out their social media profile to see if others have had the same problem. If not then they won't want bad publicity. If others have, and then the garage didn't give a monkey's, then you'll have to play hardball anyway.

Best of luck.

Unfortunately there are rare cases when the integrated circuits in the IDM or BCU are hurt when prolonged welding is executed in theyr's proximity even if the battery was disconnected especially with TIG welding but can happen with MIG too...let's hope it's not the case here.

Stanleysteamer said:

Normally it is just a question of stating the problem/grievance and that they have a week to come up with a solution before you take it to the SCT.
That will often shift them into a different gear, or so I have found.
You don't have to go and see them. A letter with PO sign for at the other end will do. even if they try to say they didn't get it, it won't make any difference. If you have an email address for them you could put it in an email as that is just as good.
The court will only look upon you a bit askance if you haven't stated the issue to them and given them a chance to correct it. If you have then they, the court, will be fine about it.

Busy at the mo but I'll give the wording some thought and get back to you.

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Thanks for that

I have messaged him letting him know what’s stopped working as the side lights and headlights now no longer work. He said

‘ I’m not sure what’s gone on there to be honest mate iv done everything to avoid any damage to any wiring etc and checked it over once built back up’

To which I responded saying in no auto electrician and I will be taking it to one if he’s happy for that and to contribute to the bill. Heard nothing as of yet and I’m not holding my breath.

Stanleysteamer said:

Do you have legal cover with your car insurance? If so, stop here and get onto them!
If not.....

"Dear .....

Last (date etc) you worked on, and employed others to work on, my vehicle (reg no).

I collected the vehicle and on driving it home discovered that it had faults (list) which were not there when I left it for you to work on.

Following the phone conversation on (date) which led to no satisfactory agreement as to further action by yourselves to rectify the faults I would be grateful if you would respond by (choose a date), in writing or by email, with a reasonable date when you would be willing to take the vehicle back for rectification of this problem in order to complete the job which I paid for in full.

I would be willing to take the vehicle to an auto electician, or have one come out to me, provided you give me written assurance that you will pay his bill. This would probably be quicker and simpler than having to take the vehicle to you then to have to go back to pick it up.

I am giving you this opportunity as I do not wish to have to take this further legally.

Yours etc"

You can't cause less tension, you talked on the phone and that got you the brush off. You are not there to make his life easy you just want what you paid for. There were no "unforeseen problems" and TBH I think as others have said that it will be a relatively simple fix.

You are being reasonable. If you weren't you'd have a bad hand if it came to court action. The costs of the claim would have to be paid for by him, assuming he loses which I very much expect he would.

Cases like this are often resolved by mediation. My last one with B&Q was resolved this way. If not it is usually solved by a judge reading the paperwork. Then you'll get a CCJ against him. If he refuses to pay then you send the bailiffs in, get an attachment of earnings or whatever to get the money off him. TBH it will be a piffling amount, an auto-electrician should find the fault and solve it very quickly.

But I did have to send the bailiffs in to Carphone Warehouse when they owed me £300, so you never know.

Check out their social media profile to see if others have had the same problem. If not then they won't want bad publicity. If others have, and then the garage didn't give a monkey's, then you'll have to play hardball anyway.

Best of luck.

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Thanks for that, that’s the frustrating thing I haven’t asked advice on fb groups as he’s annoyingly posting my vehicle on there stating he’s done the work and a happy customer etc (if anyone’s on the groups it’s not hard to see) I haven’t mentioned anything to anyone as I want it resolved amicably,

sierrafery said:

Unfortunately there are rare cases when the integrated circuits in the IDM or BCU are hurt when prolonged welding is executed in theyr's proximity even if the battery was disconnected especially with TIG welding but can happen with MIG too...let's hope it's not the case here.

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The man I was waiting to hear from !
Well that’s bad news, hopefully it isn’t that then. Is their any diy ways of testing these ? Do you know if my Hawkeye can test them ?

disco19 said:

Thanks for that, that’s the frustrating thing I haven’t asked advice on fb groups as he’s annoyingly posting my vehicle on there stating he’s done the work and a happy customer etc (if anyone’s on the groups it’s not hard to see) I haven’t mentioned anything to anyone as I want it resolved amicably,

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Firstly you haven't responded re your insurance and legal cober.
Secondly he is misrepresenting you on Facebook.
This may actually be illegal I'm not sure, but if he IS on Facebook thyen you can definitely tell him that you will be counter-posting on there and saying that eh is not telling the truth as you are not a satisfied custoemr and to take the pics off as you are basically be used for his advertising without your permission, at the very least.

Stanleysteamer said:

Firstly you haven't responded re your insurance and legal cober.
Secondly he is misrepresenting you on Facebook.
This may actually be illegal I'm not sure, but if he IS on Facebook thyen you can definitely tell him that you will be counter-posting on there and saying that eh is not telling the truth as you are not a satisfied custoemr and to take the pics off as you are basically be used for his advertising without your permission, at the very least.

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I will be checking insurance when I have access to my documents however from memory, I do have legal cover.

I will send a form email this evening, the problem I have is it’s a works vehicle and needed for towing otherwise I won’t be able to carry out some of my work.

disco19 said:

Thanks for that

I have messaged him letting him know what’s stopped working as the side lights and headlights now no longer work. He said

‘ I’m not sure what’s gone on there to be honest mate iv done everything to avoid any damage to any wiring etc and checked it over once built back up’

To which I responded saying in no auto electrician and I will be taking it to one if he’s happy for that and to contribute to the bill. Heard nothing as of yet and I’m not holding my breath.

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Do keep that message, print it out if you can as he said "checked it over once built back up" which if he did he did badly. As a paid professional he should have done that properly. Which adds grist to the legal mill.

I don't know why you are saying things like "contribute to the bill". He should be paying all of it.
His bloke, he himself or one of his crew performed actions, or were negligent, which led to the problem.
Technically it would be illegal to drive the car as it is, so he is depriving you of use of the vehicle while it has no lights to the rear. If this is your only car and you are having to hire one until it is fixed you could add the cost of that to his bill and your claim if it came to court. By not doing anything about it he is being silly and this will go in your favour and against him should this hit the Small Claims Track. You appear not to have told him you are considering legal action. All this is leading him to think you are a soft touch and will eventually go away and pay for it to be fixed yourself.

You seem to be trying to be nice to him while he is trying to gently fob you off. Do you really want to go back to him in the future to perform yet more work? He subbed it out anyway!

Kind of cross posted there. But as it is a works vehicle you MUST get this sorted out quickly. Ring your insurance company to find out if you have legal cover, if you do then tell them about it straight away. No need to wait until you find the paperwork.

Stanleysteamer said:

+1^
You've paid for it to be done, it hasn't been done, properly.
Warning letter giving them a week to rectify before small claims track or , for which you'll need to take it elswhere and get it fixed so you have an amount to take them to court for.
Best of luck

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Hi mate

Don’t know how true this is but was always told main earths should also be removed to prevent spikes to the modules

Was just curious and hope u didn’t mind me asking

Many thks