Defender L663 review !

DECEMBER UPDATE

No need to shout about it

OKAY

SO HOW'S THE DISCOVERY 5, sorry NEW DEFENDER

It's still going very well, 9,000 miles and 12 months in.
Some say it's effectively a Discovery 5, l don't know about that but it's nothing like my friends Discovery Sport. Well, certainly not since it was stolen off his drive.

ANY ISSUES WITH THE NEW ONE?

No. l bought the GAP diagnostic tool and used it to turn off some annoying features such as the stop/start, seat belt bong, puddle lights and turn lights.

MPG?

Round town 26, similar to my TD5 110 really.
On a run, 40+ so pretty good. Towing the 'van, around 26.

CHANGING BACK TO A TD5 110 YET THEN?

Not yet. But l still love old Defenders and will have another eventually.

ANY MORE MODIFICATIONS?

I bought a roof spoiler but got ridiculed on the other forum for fitting it, so took it off. l'll post a photo below. What do you think?

The side steps are a necessity on this vehicle. They weren't on my old Defender.

Does the rear spoiler divert the dirty air/water away from the rear door ?

Looks better than them front spoilers with extra lights in

lightning said:

Some say it's effectively a Discovery 5, l don't know about that but it's nothing like my friends Discovery Sport. Well, certainly not since it was stolen off his drive.

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Discovery 6, the 5 already exists. Nobody has ever said Discovery Sport, as that is today's version of a Freelander.

I still quite like the Pretender. Could see me replacing the p38 with one once prices are low enough. However, I've just had a go in a Grenadier and it is everything the new Defender should have been. It is completely incomparable to the new Defender as it is such a different vehicle, but if I had the money I know where I'd be spending it.

You'd have to spend a lot of it, they now start at £65,000 after the price went up around £12,000

l love the Grenadier and actually had an order in for one, but it's not classed as a
Commercial Vehicle by HMRC, although it is with the DVLA.

As a business owner this was a deal breaker, as l can put the Defender Commercial through my business with all the tax benefits that brings.

The Grenadier also had a large price increase and the cheapest two seat version is now £65,000 which is £14,000 more than the cheapest Defender

lightning said:

l love the Grenadier and actually had an order in for one, but it's not classed as a
Commercial Vehicle by HMRC, although it is with the DVLA.

As a business owner this was a deal breaker, as l can put the Defender Commercial through my business with all the tax benefits that brings.

The Grenadier also had a large price increase and the cheapest two seat version is now £65,000 which is £14,000 more than the cheapest Defender

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I understand about the HMRC and tax, although not really something Ineos are in control of.

The prices also look a lot closer:


The 90 isn't directly comparable as it has less doors. But I do feel the Grenadier is too expensive.

The Defender 90 Commercial starts at £51,000

The 110 Commercial is around £60,000

But l've claimed back £14,000 tax on my 90 Commercial and if l was VAT registered l could have got the VAT back as well.

That's why there's still over 12 months wait for the Commercial version.

The Defender Commercial doesn't actually meet the specifications for HMRC but JLR managed to get an exemption.

lightning said:

The Defender 90 Commercial starts at £51,000

The 110 Commercial is around £60,000

But l've claimed back £14,000 tax on my 90 Commercial and if l was VAT registered l could have got the VAT back as well.

That's why there's still over 12 months wait for the Commercial version.

The Defender Commercial doesn't actually meet the specifications for HMRC but JLR managed to get an exemption.

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The old hmrc used to be if the motor could take a certain weight inside the rear body.
Thats why seats were not fitted. Also why Mitsubishi had lead springs on the rear to allow for weight carried.

Weight must be calculated to the motor as was in a mini commercial the other day. Not seen 1 before & was impressed of the handling

Roof spoiler looks OK, looks better on a black one though.
Regardless, if you like it so what if others don't.

Hicap phill said:

The old hmrc used to be if the motor could take a certain weight inside the rear body.
Thats why seats were not fitted. Also why Mitsubishi had lead springs on the rear to allow for weight carried.

Weight must be calculated to the motor as was in a mini commercial the other day. Not seen 1 before & was impressed of the handling

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Wasn't it 1 ton?

The Defender payload is less than 1 ton.

Technically it doesn't qualify. But JLR managed to get it passed.

I've also driven the Grenadier. lt's a great vehicle, but does look like someone drew a 2014 Defender TDCi 110 from memory. The front end isn't quite there looks wise either, (in my opinion)
Unfortunately Land Rover got the old Defender so right that you'd never really better it in that department.

But the Grenadier is a lovely vehicle to drive both on and off road, and feels like it will last decades.
lf lneos had got it through as Commercial with HMRC l would have bought one.

I agree with the front of the Grenadier, downside is that it weighs about 10 tons.

FEBRUARY 2024 UPDATE

HOWS THE DEFENDER

Well, l've now done 11,000 miles and had no issues with the vehicle at all, which is why l've been quiet for a while....nothing to report

l've treated the underside with a clear anti rust wax as surface rust can apparently appear after a couple of Winters.

l've changed the oil and filter at 10,000 miles. The first service is at 21,000 (!) and there's much argument on the forum about whether that's too long.
Anyhow, changing the oil is easy, the filter is at the top front of the engine and replacing it takes less than five minutes.

The sump plug is difficult to get at without removing the alloy undertray, so l used a suction device to remove the old oil.

As l intend to keep the vehicle l think it's worthwhile.

ANY MORE MODIFICATIONS?

I didn't fit the spoiler but l found some "Defender 90" stickers in my boxes of TD5 spares so l stuck them on the sides.

The 3.0 six cylinder diesel is freakin' awesome, it's got 250bhp, mountains of torque and makes a nice noise when accelerating hard. Although there's almost no diesel clatter at all even when cold. MPG averages 26 round town or towing, 40 on a motorway run.

A couple of owners have had the built in satnav fail, the module is £3,000. This is what will kill these vehicles when they get old, it's no Defender TD5 in that respect.

My plan is to keep this until l retire from business then likely get another 110, either TD5 or Puma.

I’ve done close on 6000 miles since getting my 110.
Got some bigger tyres with smaller rims on it, oh and I’ve fitted the lucky 8 winch mount. I prefer the discreet look of the winch compared to the plastic bulbar on land rovers

Looks good.
l like those wheels, and the extended wheel arches.
The "Defender or Grenadier" argument continues on another forum. For me it was the Commercial status of the Defender that made it effectively £25,000 cheaper than a Grenadier

I've driven the Grenadier and it's obviously more of a Defender replacement than the new Defender, it's just quite expensive. The cheapest 2 seat version in base specification is £65,000

lightning said:

Looks good.
l like those wheels, and the extended wheel arches.
The "Defender or Grenadier" argument continues on another forum. For me it was the Commercial status of the Defender that made it effectively £25,000 cheaper than a Grenadier

I've driven the Grenadier and it's obviously more of a Defender replacement than the new Defender, it's just quite expensive. The cheapest 2 seat version in base specification is £65,000

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Yeah I’ve seen the debate on the other forum. My thoughts on the grenadier are it’s too late to the party. If it was available a couple of years before the new defender was launched it may of been an option, but I have a 200tdi 90 if I want to rough it
After driving new defender I don’t think I could spend similar money on a grenadier with its woolly steering and compromised footwell in right hand drive models, in a car that spends most of its time on tarmac,
And incidentally the new defender is pretty good off road once you get to grips with it’s length and girth.

johnlad said:

Yeah I’ve seen the debate on the other forum. My thoughts on the grenadier are it’s too late to the party. If it was available a couple of years before the new defender was launched it may of been an option, but I have a 200tdi 90 if I want to rough it
After driving new defender I don’t think I could spend similar money on a grenadier with its woolly steering and compromised footwell in right hand drive models, in a car that spends most of its time on tarmac,
And incidentally the new defender is pretty good off road once you get to grips with it’s length and girth.

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You have to be completely mental if you think you are roughing it in a Grenadier. It easily drives and rides as well as a p38 Range Rover and arguably handles better. And the p38 is a very very capable machine. Roughing it would be driving a normal fwd hatchback! The Grenadier is quiet, comfortable and highly capable.

300bhp/ton said:

You have to be completely mental if you think you are roughing it in a Grenadier. It easily drives and rides as well as a p38 Range Rover and arguably handles better. And the p38 is a very very capable machine. Roughing it would be driving a normal fwd hatchback! The Grenadier is quiet, comfortable and highly capable.

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I’ve test driven them, do you always call people mental who don’t agree with your opinion?
You seem to enjoy following me around the forum trying to alter my perceptions, news for you it ain’t going to work

l've driven both. The Grenadier is good but it's not a patch on the new Defender on road.
However, it's good enough to be used as a road vehicle and if you are coming from an old model Defender it will seem refined.

It's great that there's a choice. l think lneos have done a great job producing the "new Defender that Land Rover should have built" as many call it.

lightning said:

l've driven both. The Grenadier is good but it's not a patch on the new Defender on road.
However, it's good enough to be used as a road vehicle and if you are coming from an old model Defender it will seem refined.

It's great that there's a choice. l think lneos have done a great job producing the "new Defender that Land Rover should have built" as many call it.

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Grenadier over the "Defender" any day of the week.

People moaning 'its not a real defendurrrr'

Is the brand new range rover not a 'proper' range rover because it hasn't got coil springs and velour seats?? This is where defender would be anyway if they'd developed the bloody thing over all those years like they should have

Like saying a puma 110 isn't a real land rover compared to a series 1, barmy!