Defender 90 TD5 Hunting in Idle (HELP)

Hi,

firstly, forgive me as I am a complete novice.

Just bought my first Defender at 19, its been my dream car since I was about 5 when my mum had one.
All great until yesterday I heard a change in the noise of the engine in Idle. Also a lack of acceleration power in all gears and the ride is kind of bumpy in low gears, jolty?. The gear stick shakes aggressively whilst in all gears, but didn't before (only vibrated in neutral). I think this all came about after we had torrential rain and I was tearing through huge puddles and drenching the Defender. Or at least this was the last thing I did, before starting the car up again later that night to pop out and noticed the changes.

So, I have taken it to my local garage and a Kwik Fit. My local suggested the Defender sounds like its hunting in Idle. and a full service and change of all oils in gearbox is necessary to flush out the issues, then go from there. However, going from there...will cost me around £420.00 he says. Kiwi fit basically just told me the truth and said they're unsure and would suggest I look through some forums then take it to a specialist.

Does anyone out there have any ideas of what the issue may be and how to fix it and what costs it might average at?.

Any help is appreciated!.

Thanks,

FS

first off, open air box in engine bay to check for any water being ingested into the engine, if dry , start checking common td5 faults.
under drivers seat, pull the red plug off the ecu and check for oil contamination, if its there the injector loom needs changing that can cause all sorts of running issues, but isnt a big job to fix,
also check the loom connection where it exits the front of the cylinder head, then it needs plugging into a diagnostic tester

Finnjws said:

Hi,

firstly, forgive me as I am a complete novice.

Just bought my first Defender at 19, its been my dream car since I was about 5 when my mum had one.
All great until yesterday I heard a change in the noise of the engine in Idle. Also a lack of acceleration power in all gears and the ride is kind of bumpy in low gears, jolty?. The gear stick shakes aggressively whilst in all gears, but didn't before (only vibrated in neutral). I think this all came about after we had torrential rain and I was tearing through huge puddles and drenching the Defender. Or at least this was the last thing I did, before starting the car up again later that night to pop out and noticed the changes.

So, I have taken it to my local garage and a Kwik Fit. My local suggested the Defender sounds like its hunting in Idle. and a full service and change of all oils in gearbox is necessary to flush out the issues, then go from there. However, going from there...will cost me around £420.00 he says. Kiwi fit basically just told me the truth and said they're unsure and would suggest I look through some forums then take it to a specialist.

Does anyone out there have any ideas of what the issue may be and how to fix it and what costs it might average at?.

Any help is appreciated!.

Thanks,

FS

Click to expand...

First I agree with Johnlad above pull off the red plug to the ECU under the drivers seat and check for oil inside the plug, if its there get a can of brake cleaner and spray the plug leave it an hour then spray again, repeat three or four times.
Second it was good of your local people to tell you the truth i.e.
1 The garage told you they are a set of bandits,
2 Quick fit told you they don't know and don't want to take your money for nothing ( very commendable)
you need to remember the lessons
TD5s are great when they are running but can throw up quite a few problems and a little time spent searching on the forum will help you, but don't let it scare you not every engine has every fault.
Sounds like you have some kind of fueling problem water may be the cause or just a red herring, may pay you to look at the fuel filter and if its old and rusty a few quid on a new one wont be wasted, take care to remove the old sealing ring from the center stem.
Out of interest when you first turn on the ignition do you hear a whining noise from the back which dies out after a while?
Best of all would be if some kind member who has some experience and lives not too far away might give you the benefit of their learning, sometimes it may be that they can point to the problem, if they can it may help you on your learning path, and save quite a bit of money.

Thank you to both of you, before work I have just taken the drover seat out and searched for oil in the red plug and found some ( photos attached). I will get some brake cleaner and give that a go later on today. Yes I thought so too about Kwk fit, I told them the price I was told my local and they were blown away too. If the Ecu oil contamination is the issue, and changing the injector loom needs changing, what would be the next step? I had the same thought, Id be really thankful if someone living nearby - Hemingford Abbots Cambridgeshire - would be happy to drop in and shine some light and help me to overcome this issue. I would be happy to them some money for their time of course.

Happy to offer them some money* Apologies about the poor spelling!.

Finnjws said:

Thank you to both of you, before work I have just taken the drover seat out and searched for oil in the red plug and found some ( photos attached). I will get some brake cleaner and give that a go later on today. Yes I thought so too about Kwk fit, I told them the price I was told my local and they were blown away too. If the Ecu oil contamination is the issue, and changing the injector loom needs changing, what would be the next step? I had the same thought, Id be really thankful if someone living nearby - Hemingford Abbots Cambridgeshire - would be happy to drop in and shine some light and help me to overcome this issue. I would be happy to them some money for their time of course.

Click to expand...

Looks like you may have found the prime suspect.
I spray brake cleaner into the plug leave it hanging loose with some kitchen towel under it to soak up the oil, do it a few times and repeat about once a week after you replace the injector loom as there will still be some oil in the wiring ( it soaks inside the insulation like a wick)
Get a new injector loom its not hard to change you will find plenty of info here:
http://www.discovery2.co.uk/Injector_harness.html
this is actually a discovery but same engine same problem,
I would not try to open the ECU case unless everything else fails just clean out the oil from the plugs

Watch this

The other thing to remember to do is clean the multiplug at the cylinder head end too. Give it a few doses of cleaner and leave it bent over to allow the excess fluid to drain out. Once you've given it a new injector harness this might well solve a lot of problems.

Other things to do are to check the MAF sensor - it's in the pipe leading from the air fiter box to the engine. If you unplug it and the engine seems better then it's probably time to change it. There's a sensor on the inlet manifold of the engine too, which can be removed and cleaned to some advantage.

One of the relays under the driver's seat works the fuel pump. It's worth looking at these as they can develop intermittent problems (it happened to one of mine) and the wires can get bit loose in their crimp-on connectors - it's all that vibration. If you fancy a bigger job, it might be worth getting the pump out of the fuel tank to look at. When I did this to mine I discovered that the mesh at the bottom of the pump was partly obstructed by something that looked like grass clippings. all of these things can cause changes in the fuel pressure and volume, which translate into changes in engine speed.

You mention getting the car soaked. Worth pulling the air intake grille off the drivers side wing (it is held on by push fit pins and should come off easily if its the same as my puma) and checking there is no water sitting in the bottom of the intake funnel. The funnel can hold about an inch deep of water (just behind the wing surface). This could affect fuelling. (Noticed this on mine as I had the grille off for a while).

Thank you Raywin, kawakerman I am looking now on eBay for an injector Loom. Is this one the correct one to get? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bearmach-...010076?hash=item4af55bbd5c:g:MJAAAOSweW5U65E8

When I get round to this job on Sunday I will make sure to clean the multiple also, thanks Brown. I will also take off the air intake grille on the driver side wing too. Might as well check it all out!.

One other question. I have replaced the grille and front headlights, sidelights and indicators and all back lights including the number plate light. Upon re-wiring the number plate light i accidentally touched the positive and negative wires and a little spark went off and I lost back stop lights and front sidelights. I took it to Halfords thinking it was a simple fuse issue. However they checked them all out and its a Relay issue. He pointed to the one that needs replacing but I don't know how to search for that specific relay. Its black, thats all I know.. and controls the side lights and stop lights on the left side of my Defender. Thanks everyone. Great help!.

Certainly looks like the one, I know there are two variants of the TD5, the10P and the 15P (its the start of the engine number) but don't know if it is the same harness for both. Someone on here will know, I'm fortunate enough to have a 300TDI so no such issues for me. Would be a bit suspicious about the relay diagnosis, from what I remember there isn't a relay in the brake or sidelight circuits (but could be wrong). I suspect it is actually a fuse issue, if you shorted something out the fuse would blow long before any relay contacts were damaged. Normal automotive relay contacts are rated around the 30 Amp mark, fuses in your lighting circuits won't be that large (10A for headlight IIRC). I'd have a second look at the fuses

Ha, Ha, just looked at your profile to see what year your landy is and spotted you were born exactly 10 days after my 90 was first registered!!!!

Check main fuses under drivers seat , I think it's the one nearest the front of seat box compartment, 30amp if I remember correctly

I will hold off ordering the harness before I'm certain, don't want any mistakes made!. Thats really interesting to hear about the Relay/fuse issue... The man at Halfords used his tool to check the fuses, the top row were all working fine but none of the bottom row were lighting up on his tool when tested?. So, leading him to suggest a specific relay was to blame. I will check drivers side main fuses in seat box tomorrow and let you know what happens.

Hahaha Kwakerman guessing your 90 was registered 23rd august 1996 then?. I was looking at buying a 90 older than me!, went for a 2000 model eventually.

Finnjws said:

Hahaha Kwakerman guessing your 90 was registered 23rd august 1996 then?. I was looking at buying a 90 older than me!, went for a 2000 model eventually.

Click to expand...

It is the 3rd actually, so its seen more life than you have

Oh my bad of course! Haha!. I am currently using break cleaner to clean the oil from the ecu and have sprayed and left it each time for around an hour about 4 times now. I haven't seen any improvement?. As I found oil in the ecu, would that suggest this IS the issue and by replacing the injector loom will solve it? (Ordered injector loom), or could it be something else and just concisdental I also found this issue?. Thanks everyone you're really helping me out!.

Finnjws said:

Oh my bad of course! Haha!. I am currently using break cleaner to clean the oil from the ecu and have sprayed and left it each time for around an hour about 4 times now. I haven't seen any improvement?. As I found oil in the ecu, would that suggest this IS the issue and by replacing the injector loom will solve it? (Ordered injector loom), or could it be something else and just concisdental I also found this issue?. Thanks everyone you're really helping me out!.

Click to expand...

You might find that when you get the plug and ECU cleaned out it will run ok but if you don't change the injector harness it will just keep on happening.

Okay, What if it doesn't make any changes?. Because at the moment, after cleaning out the ecu multiple time there has been no change so far. I have ordered a new Hardness, so when that arrives I will make sure I replace that.

raywin said:

First I agree with Johnlad above pull off the red plug to the ECU under the drivers seat and check for oil inside the plug, if its there get a can of brake cleaner and spray the plug leave it an hour then spray again, repeat three or four times.
Second it was good of your local people to tell you the truth i.e.
1 The garage told you they are a set of bandits,
2 Quick fit told you they don't know and don't want to take your money for nothing ( very commendable)
you need to remember the lessons
TD5s are great when they are running but can throw up quite a few problems and a little time spent searching on the forum will help you, but don't let it scare you not every engine has every fault.
Sounds like you have some kind of fueling problem water may be the cause or just a red herring, may pay you to look at the fuel filter and if its old and rusty a few quid on a new one wont be wasted, take care to remove the old sealing ring from the center stem.
Out of interest when you first turn on the ignition do you hear a whining noise from the back which dies out after a while?
Best of all would be if some kind member who has some experience and lives not too far away might give you the benefit of their learning, sometimes it may be that they can point to the problem, if they can it may help you on your learning path, and save quite a bit of money.

Click to expand...

In reply to this, I think its best to just check everything everyone has suggested. Should i attempt to bleed the system following this link - http://defendertd5.weebly.com/fuel-filter-change.html and if the actual filter is rotten then replace it?. will bleeding the system get rid of any water that might be causing issues?.

Nobody has mentioned it, but "tearing through huge puddles and drenching the Defender" is not a great idea. Water can do a lot of damage and needs treating with some respect.
The Defender is very capable but there are limits.
On Tuesday l was out on my bike and saw an Evoque go through a flooded area of road at well over 30mph. The water was only 2-3 inches deep but it ripped the lower trim off the rear bumper.