Defender 110's - tell me more!

OK, forgive my ignorance but here goes! What’s the difference between all the Defender models? I am mainly talking about 110’s rather than 90’s here, as I am still trying to decide/source an overland project vehicle, and feel a 110 would be more suitable in terms of space and storage.

Of the 110’s, some are pick-ups, some have canvas roofs (mostly MOD cars), some are hardtops (no windows), some have 5 doors with seats, some seat 12 and some are ex-utility company vehicles – it’s all a bit confusing really! The one’s that tend to fall within my budget are mostly pickups and hardtops – would these be suitable overland vehicles? Most of the Overland Defender’s I see are either station wagons (with the extra doors and seats) or utility company ones, so what makes these different to a 110 hardtop (and indeed, more valuable)? Are they a better bet and worth the extra?

Incidentally, my Overland trip will only be 2 of us, so the extra seats are not necessary. Would it be possible to have fold-down beds in the back and still enough storage for 3-4 weeks on the road? Obviously if I was going for longer and further afield I would look at roof tents to free up storage space inside the vehicle.

Final question – how are they on the road? I owned a Range Rover Classic until a few weeks back, and recently drove a Series III (SWB) – is the Defender somewhere in between the two? I found the Series III great fun, but not something I would want to cover long distances in – is a Defender any better? And can you improve the legroom in the cabin at all, as I am 6ft tall but have quiet long legs!

Thanks in advance

station wagon perfect for familys but if just 2 then van back would be more ideal ,though i prefer full canvas ,bulkhead behind seats can be removed and strengthener added if more seat movement required, the best one for sleeping in back i saw had fold down ply wood that run over seat bulkhead with storage underneath and at rear in lockers to roof,andfolding bit going over seats, but his seats did fold below that level,storage in side bins like military, a good 300 tdi or td5 drive well not like series

jamesmartin said:

station wagon perfect for familys but if just 2 then van back would be more ideal ,though i prefer full canvas ,bulkhead behind seats can be removed and strengthener added if more seat movement required, the best one for sleeping in back i saw had fold down ply wood that run over seat bulkhead with storage underneath and at rear in lockers to roof,andfolding bit going over seats, but his seats did fold below that level,storage in side bins like military, a good 300 tdi or td5 drive well not like series

Click to expand...

Thanks as ever James! The one I am looking at in particular is a 200 Tdi - similar to the 300 in most respects I assume? I guess parts are pretty interchangable between all the models anyway!

You can get a seat of MUD seat rails which will give you more legroom - especially if there is no bulkhead directly behind the seat. Exmoor Trim also make the rails, and if you're feeling creative you could probably make your own with some box section steel.

OK, cool, thanks.

Another question - what's the deal with military spec 110's? They all seem to be N/A 2.5's, so are probably a bit sluggish, and I am guessing are sparsely equipped, but is there anything about them that would make them more suitable for overland work? Not really sure what differentiates them over the civilian models, and what justifies their typically higher values.

Cheers!

mikev8se said:

ok, cool, thanks.

Another question - what's the deal with military spec 110's? They all seem to be n/a 2.5's, so are probably a bit sluggish, and i am guessing are sparsely equipped, but is there anything about them that would make them more suitable for overland work? Not really sure what differentiates them over the civilian models, and what justifies their typically higher values.

Cheers!

Click to expand...

theyre pretty much all nas.easier to fix and no electric.the chassis are also better

200 tdi is good just forgot about it,probably better than 300tdi reliability wise especially hgf, some military have strengthend chassis strips of steel top and bottom of chassis rail ,they are often in better condition for age but not allways ,2.5 na waste of time,but often come with side stowage lockers ,but you can buy and fit your self, i allways look at used vehicles in that you have 3 things to look at body work engine transmission etc , chassis ,poor on all 3 is bad as chassis can be replaced with galv if poor but body great ,same with engine etc but poor body and not too great chassis will be a costly pain .like wise easy to replace gearbox hard to replace bulkhead ,sorry hard to explain

Don't forget that if you decide on a 200TDi you will by buying an engine that is not going to be less than 16-17 years old, it might have been rebuilt but it will still be of an age.
The 300TDi was available in some markets up to just 2-3 years ago so there are still some very low mileage ones out there (mine has only done about 20K miles for instance) so that might be a better bet? Even if you can't get a really low mileage one it will still be a younger engine than a 200TDi.
The 2.5NAD can be sluggish (especially in a loaded 110) but when correctly maintained a briliantly reliable engine. Mine was faultless in all the years I owned it, was actually quite sprightly (it had been rebuilt just prior to release) and never returned less than 27MPG no matter what I did. Also the LT77 on the earlier engines is a good gearbox, the R380 (300TDi onwards) is meant to be stronger but from day one mine has never been a 'nice' box to use and I hanker after my old LT77.
Ex-MOD machines CAN be a good buy but you need to do your homework before parting with your money. As a rule they may have had a hard life but will have been maintained regularly (which is more than can be said about a lot of privately owned vehicles) and when it comes to spares money is no object. When I bought my old 90 (direct from auction) it was easier to list the parts that HADN'T been replaced rather than those that had! The body was a bit tatty but look beyond that it had an excellent chassis and was bristling with new parts, in addition they are so basic that you can use them as a blank canvas and prepare them as you wish.
As for comfort I am 6ft and quite bulky but when I had Recaro seats fitted I could cover over 700 miles a day in perfect comfort, now I am on standard seats I would knock that back to about 500 as they don't have the same level of support.

goonarmy said:

theyre pretty much all nas.easier to fix and no electric.the chassis are also better

Click to expand...

I think the N/A engines would be too sluggish for my liking - don't worry, I'm not expecting anything lightening quick, but the turbo diesels would definitely be more suited to my needs. In what way are chassis better, reinforced or better rust prevention? Both?

jamesmartin said:

....sorry hard to explain

Click to expand...

Understood! Basically look for a solid chassis, body and engine!!

Litch said:

Don't forget that if you decide on a 200TDi you will by buying an engine that is not going to be less than 16-17 years old, it might have been rebuilt but it will still be of an age.....

Click to expand...

Very true, but my budget won't stretch to a newer vehicle and I think a lower mileage 200 Tdi is a better bet than a higher mileage 300 Tdi!

I do think the seats are something I would need to look to change - I like a bit of legroom for starters, but also I have a bad lower back which is mostly fine, but a bad seat tends to cause some pain. Still, these are all things that can be changed as I go along I guess!


Anything else I should know about on them before taking the plunge?

A 110 is ideal for expeditions. I like the station wagons as the windows in the back give you better visibility when driving and makes passengers happier (if and when you carry them). You can always take the seats out to reclaim the space. But if you need to park and leave it somewhere full of valuable gear, a hard top would be more secure.

In terms of legroom, a truck cab (pickup) is more restricted - at 6'5", I could only just squeeze in and wouldn't want to drive it for long. Hard tops and CSWs are much more comfy for the taller driver - you can install the longer seat rails, but I haven't felt the need.

For driving comfort, it's not as good as a Range Rover but a little nicer than a Series - so I think your guess is probably about right. The ride is fine but over about 65mph the wind noise from the Defender's brick-like aerodynamics becomes a bit intrusive. I recently drove almost 300 miles in one sitting with no problems other than a slight GBH of the eardrums.

Engine-wise, the pre-Tdi engines are reliable but sadly underpowered - it seems to take ages just to get the thing rolling and then it struggles up hills. Given that Defenders aren't exactly speed demons at the best of times, I'd say go for the 200/300Tdi, which are also simple, reliable, and built like tanks, but have a lot more oomph.

A V8 110 CSW is basically a RRC with a different body, with a diesel engine the gap widens considerably.
I dont know what your budget is , or your level of mechanical ability, The route I would take if you are capable is , by a early (pre defender) 110 V8 either CSW or hardtop, as the ali bodywork is thicker panels. or even diesel with duff engine. Make a good inspection as to condition of bulkhead , and chassis . IF you can get one cheap enough then rechassis in galv is a good longterm move. Find a rotten disco 300 tdi (not difficult) with low mileage and use that engine in your 110 . The sale of the parts should cover the cost. This route if you can will give you the best bang for the buck, and you will be certain of the condition of the vehicle, as there a lot of tarted up sheds out there . it will also upgrade your mech skills (hopefully) .
Re sleeping, a folding bed located on passenger side with slight extension over seat area will give sufficient space for two , using selfinflating matress, is best.
I converted 109 hard top as such, with cooker, fridge sink and 14gallon water tank on driver side, and storage cupboard , on n/s . I cut down into wheelboxes from inside rather than going the external locker route. With standard fuel tank in rear and optional equip tanks under front seats . Dual batteries in centre front seat postion in FFR mil battery box, with cubby on top. As it was HD leaf springs (very firm ride) I fitted Bostrom suspension seats in front. HTSH

keithlard said:

A 110 is ideal for expeditions. I like the station wagons as the windows in the back give you better visibility when driving and makes passengers happier (if and when you carry them). You can always take the seats out to reclaim the space. But if you need to park and leave it somewhere full of valuable gear, a hard top would be more secure.

In terms of legroom, a truck cab (pickup) is more restricted - at 6'5", I could only just squeeze in and wouldn't want to drive it for long. Hard tops and CSWs are much more comfy for the taller driver - you can install the longer seat rails, but I haven't felt the need.

For driving comfort, it's not as good as a Range Rover but a little nicer than a Series - so I think your guess is probably about right. The ride is fine but over about 65mph the wind noise from the Defender's brick-like aerodynamics becomes a bit intrusive. I recently drove almost 300 miles in one sitting with no problems other than a slight GBH of the eardrums.

Engine-wise, the pre-Tdi engines are reliable but sadly underpowered - it seems to take ages just to get the thing rolling and then it struggles up hills. Given that Defenders aren't exactly speed demons at the best of times, I'd say go for the 200/300Tdi, which are also simple, reliable, and built like tanks, but have a lot more oomph.

Click to expand...

There will only be two people travelling in the car, so I do not need the extra seats - although there'd be space in the back for anyone who needed a lift along the way, just no seat!

With regards to windows, I was thinking of adding a window like this in the rear panel, to aid viewing angle at junctions and also to add some light into the back of the truck:



When you say a truck cab, is that like a pick-up? So I should still have as much room in a hard top as I would in a station wagon?

To be honest, even in my mates Disco 1 V8 we only trundle along at 65-70mph anyway, so 65mph in the Defender would be fine I'm sure. In my Classic it would do 80, but the fuel consumption was horrendous - around 70mph seemed to be a happy medium.

Out of interest, how much does is cost to fill up a 110 and what sort of range do you get from the standard tank? This would be a standard 200 Tdi 110 hardtop.

Cheers!

MikeV8SE said:

OK, cool, thanks.

Another question - what's the deal with military spec 110's? They all seem to be N/A 2.5's, so are probably a bit sluggish, and I am guessing are sparsely equipped, but is there anything about them that would make them more suitable for overland work? Not really sure what differentiates them over the civilian models, and what justifies their typically higher values.

Cheers!

Click to expand...

Thin Armour-plating gives it a bit more strength (but slightly worse MPG), stowage bins on either side, gun racks for the driver and passenger (useful for shotgun owners).
Collectors value is another thing.
But you're right nearly all are the 2.5 NA models OR a few V8 models.
If from Germany expect LHD without exception.
I nearly got one but it was 2.5 NA.
For all that the 2.5 NA are a bit easier to work on without having a turbo, BUT they are one of the slowest vehicles on the road!

MikeV8SE said:

I think the N/A engines would be too sluggish for my liking - don't worry, I'm not expecting anything lightening quick, but the turbo diesels would definitely be more suited to my needs. In what way are chassis better, reinforced or better rust prevention? Both?

Click to expand...

bit of both, you ever seen a miltary chassis?Some poor reme has painted hardcore waxol stuff about a inch thick usually.
Land Rover Defender - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

MikeV8SE said:

Out of interest, how much does is cost to fill up a 110 and what sort of range do you get from the standard tank? This would be a standard 200 Tdi 110 hardtop.

Click to expand...

At current prices? Was on empty a couple of weeks ago (lowest I've had it since owning it) and filled up at a reasonable price (138.9 p/l I think) and was just under £100. It's got a 65L tank as standard so you can do the maths (probably another litre or three in the pipes).

In terms of miles per tank than I reckon I can get approximately 400 on a standard tank but that's "pottering" along at 75mph and typically carrying 9 people or a huge amount of kit. Although weight doesn't affect fuel consumption too much.

It is a 300Tdi CSW rather than a 200Tdi HT though.

I'm over 6ft 3 and I drive a 90 every day. Leg room is no issue at all. 110's don't have a bulkhead so they have a bit more room.

ed.poore said:

At current prices? Was on empty a couple of weeks ago (lowest I've had it since owning it) and filled up at a reasonable price (138.9 p/l I think) and was just under £100. It's got a 65L tank as standard so you can do the maths (probably another litre or three in the pipes).

In terms of miles per tank than I reckon I can get approximately 400 on a standard tank but that's "pottering" along at 75mph and typically carrying 9 people or a huge amount of kit. Although weight doesn't affect fuel consumption too much.

It is a 300Tdi CSW rather than a 200Tdi HT though.

Click to expand...

He's right to be honest. Even with a trailer on I get the same mpg.

It's already a heavy breeze block on wheels so there's not much short of strapping an elephant to it that can make the fuel consumption worse.

ed.poore said:

At current prices? Was on empty a couple of weeks ago (lowest I've had it since owning it) and filled up at a reasonable price (138.9 p/l I think) and was just under £100. It's got a 65L tank as standard so you can do the maths (probably another litre or three in the pipes).

In terms of miles per tank than I reckon I can get approximately 400 on a standard tank but that's "pottering" along at 75mph and typically carrying 9 people or a huge amount of kit. Although weight doesn't affect fuel consumption too much.

It is a 300Tdi CSW rather than a 200Tdi HT though.

Click to expand...

guess i must have a right foot of about 50kgs then

buckshot said:

guess i must have a right foot of about 50kgs then

Click to expand...

Probably - that or a V8

I know for a fact that I can get 350 miles on ¾ of a tank. I don't tend to let the fuel drop too low since I don't have a low-fuel warning light (haven't investigated properly but under all the mud could only see two wires coming off the sender). That coupled with the fact that I tend to be doing either one of two things - long journeys thus start with a full-tank. Or someone else is paying so it's brimmed before the journey and brimmed after the journey - they then pay.

It's an indicated half tank from home in London to home in Wales and that's a journey of 240 miles door to door.

Think I read on Wikipedia or somewhere like that that teh ex-MOD ones are (or should be) all normally aspirated. Apparently the army like to install 24volt generators on them, and the turbo engined ones weren't suitable for some reason.