Chassis too high off springs?

boguing said:

Not the herd, the manual and commonsense

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So tell me were the commonsense is???
You are advising him to pre load the road springs just to fit - far too short - axel straps?
They'll be bar tight around the axel and be under tremendous tension. Off road they will not allow the axe; to drop, so making the Front springs do all the flexing.
Fitting those axel straps sounds like an un-necessarily dangerous job as they serve absolutely no useful purpose.
If you want some, just make longer ones.
Please tell me Why - way too short - axel straps should be fitted ?

Enrich01 said:

So tell me were the commonsense is???
You are advising him to pre load the road springs just to fit - far too short - axel straps?
They'll be bar tight around the axel and be under tremendous tension. Off road they will not allow the axe; to drop, so making the Front springs do all the flexing.
Fitting those axel straps sounds like an un-necessarily dangerous job as they serve absolutely no useful purpose.
If you want some, just make longer ones.
Please tell me Why - way too short - axel straps should be fitted ?

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I have no knowledge of this at all.
But. there's always a but.

For me if they are standard straps, springs, shocks. then it will all be fine once rebuilt.

Right now hes far from taking it on any road .

J

marjon said:

I have no knowledge of this at all.
But. there's always a but.

For me if they are standard straps, springs, shocks. then it will all be fine once rebuilt.

Right now hes far from taking it on any road .

J

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He has fitted new 'standard' GME springs. So once the weight is back on the chassis, with body fitted, etc, the shocks will/should fit.
But its the 'Micky mouse' axel straps that seems to be of most concern!!
Worry about fitting them once the weight's fully on the springs. You will have to make up new straps if you want them at all.
Do not try and fit those short axel straps as your chassis-axel axel ride height is now correct.

Eh, manual recommends tightening axle to specification distance to bump stop then torque nuts on shackles.

Straps are to specification.

If parabolic springs then fit monroe gas magnum shocks, which have integrated bump stops, this no need to fit straps.

Build it, drive to the MOT station. Undo the bolts and redo.

Enrich01 said:

So tell me were the commonsense is???
You are advising him to pre load the road springs just to fit - far too short - axel straps?
They'll be bar tight around the axel and be under tremendous tension. Off road they will not allow the axe; to drop, so making the Front springs do all the flexing.
Fitting those axel straps sounds like an un-necessarily dangerous job as they serve absolutely no useful purpose.
If you want some, just make longer ones.
Please tell me Why - way too short - axel straps should be fitted ?

Click to expand...

I advised, as does the manual, to preload so that the ride height is set to the dimensions given. If you do that then the straps will fit, and hang loose - until the day that the axle drops and they tighten in order to stop the damper hitting its limit.

Enrich01 said:

He has fitted new 'standard' GME springs. So once the weight is back on the chassis, with body fitted, etc, the shocks will/should fit.
But its the 'Micky mouse' axel straps that seems to be of most concern!!
Worry about fitting them once the weight's fully on the springs, and you will have to make new straps if you want them at all.
Do not try and fit the short axel straps. Your chassis axel ride height is now correct.

Click to expand...

Not sure what or why you are saying what you are saying

Its standard it works

J

boguing said:

I advised, as does the manual, to preload so that the ride height is set to the dimensions given. If you do that then the straps fill fit, and hang loose - until the day that the axle drops and they tighten in order to stop the damper hitting its limit.

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I do not advise trying to match the ride height dimensions in the manual. The reason being that any new springs you fit will have a unique set/ Curvature, that will, over time alter. The dimensions in the manual are simple the factory measurements for comparison, and so do not need to be matched!
Parabolics or the GME springs you fitted will have a far greater 'Set' than the flattened multi leaf springs of old. Using the workshop manual dimensions is a good way of seeing how much 'Lift' you have gained with the new springs.
If using, standard Bonded Rubber bushes, keep shackle bolts loose until all the weight is fully back on the vehicle. Only then fully tighten, which will clamp the shackle plates to the inner tube of the bush. The bushes will only twist -so far.. without tearing. So only Clamp when the weight is fully back on level ground. Bonded rubber bushes only flex so far before they tear.
With Polybushes the centre shackle pins can revolve freely so you can clamp these fully tight in any position. And why poly bushes are ideal for Off road use.

Enrich01 said:

I do not advise trying to match the ride height dimensions in the manual. The reason being that any new springs you fit will have a unique set/ Curvature, that will, over time alter. The dimensions in the manual are simple the factory measurements for comparison, and so do not need to be matched!
Parabolics or the GME springs you fitted will have a far greater 'Set' than the flattened multi leaf springs of old. Using the workshop manual dimensions is a good way of seeing how much 'Lift' you have gained with the new springs.
If using, standard Bonded Rubber bushes, keep shackle bolts loose until all the weight is fully back on the vehicle. Only then fully tighten, which will clamp the shackle plates to the inner tube of the bush. The bushes will only twist -so far.. without tearing. So only Clamp when the weight is fully back on level ground. Bonded rubber bushes only flex so far before they tear.
With Polybushes the centre shackle pins can revolve freely so you can clamp these fully tight in any position. And why poly bushes are ideal for Off road use.

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I was talking about standard springs and bushes. If you want to fit 'taller' springs (and presumably longer dampers), then yes, go ahead.

Personally I think that polybushes are just a cheap alternative made popular by the easy fitting - there must be a good reason that car makers don't fit them, I suspect that it's the preload.

I am referring the lovely GME road springs as fitted in this thread.. Fit the springs as you have, and if shocks do not reach, fit longer 1 ton shocks or other. If the axel straps wont fit, bin them or fit longer.
Once level on 4 wheels and all weight is back, fully tighten the shackle bolts.
The gap between bump stop and axel will be unique to the new leaf springs you have fitted. Do not try and match the workshop measurements.. why?
If you did use ratchet strap to compress axel/Chassis together, that could require a force of a few KGs to 1/2 ton or more judging by the huge gap you have.. If you clamp axel to chassis, do you hold the clamped axel in position using the the axel straps? Remember The axel straps are only meant to support the weight of the dropped axel, not continuously hold the springs under what could be extreme tension. if you do this you'll also loose the progressive rate of your new springs as they'll be compressed and much firmer.
Also if you clamp the spring bushes with the axel straps clamping it all together, any stretching of the axel strap, or removal/breakage of the axel strap will tear the bonded rubber spring bushes.
You have new springs, the arch of these springs will determine the ride height. Do not try and compress the road springs to match the height of the old, flatter multi leaf springs. Just enjoy the fresher ride height and the softer ride

Er, one ton shocks? On a SWB? Interesting.

My old 2a SWB because it did a lot of rough ground work and RTV trials I fitted it with double shocks on the front [stopped front crashing on to stops ] and longer Transit shocks on the rear for more rear flex. Axle straps? Did away with them.

sprie said:

So for the moment, i have left the bottle jack in place, in the hope that the spring settles a bit.

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Did this work for you? I.e. did the springs settle in such a way that the distance between axle & chassis is roughly what's in the big green book (post #5 above)? I think I'm having exactly the same problem as you i.e. I've refitted my old springs (having cleaned, repainted and greased the leaves), fitted new bushes, and now I can hardly get the shocks back on -- as you say, it's all very well compressing the spring but it goes back almost to where it started! So I'm hoping that your "leave it compressed overnight" idea might have worked??

sprie said:

I had the mix of shackle plates - some with thread, some without. Some with v small offset, some with longer offset, all as per parts book. So i think that is ok.

I have put the bottle jack on, and squeezed it up on one side with some heavy straps. This moves the spring into the right place, but as you might expect, when i release the bottle jack it moves back (give-or-take) to where it started from.
When squashed up, i could install the leather straps (which i think just fit next to the U bar) and the shocks - but i am still worried that the strain is more than the leather strap (and it's bolt holes) can/should cope with. So for the moment, i have left the bottle jack in place, in the hope that the spring settles a bit. I have 4 big wheels/tyres plus 4 heavy wooden sleepers on the frame too.

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If the leaf springs are tempered correctly they will always return to their original arc, unless you squeeze them beyond their elastic limit, which will then damage the springs. Compressing the springs to match what the workshop manual says is pointless, this distance is unique to the springs.. If you can't fit the shocks, slight compression of the springs might be enough, but if it takes more, longer shocks is the answer. With multi leaf springs, if refitting difficult, try leaving the shocks off and Use the vehicle without Shocks. The leaf springs will settle quickly when in use.
Multi leaf springs will self dampen thanks to their own interleaf friction, so running without shocks will be quite safe. Try it
Then fit shocks when distance is correct.