Brakes

KISSMYAURA said:

Intersting read here from Mintex website

copper-slip-vs-ceratec

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@gstuart you were spot on about the ABS n copperslip problems ! just read about it on the mintex website!

KISSMYAURA said:

Intersting read here from Mintex website

copper-slip-vs-ceratec

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many thks and will have a read of that later , but did see the bit where u highlighted it ,

Firstly, products such as copper slip cannot withstand high temperatures. This is an issue as it stops the pads from moving freely within the system, in turn causing drag and premature ware. It can react with steel and aluminium, increasing corrosion between these two metals should contact occur.

Stanleysteamer said:

This is a revelation to me. I have been using copaslip since, well, the 1970s, when I first had to work on cars as I couldn't afford garage fees.
So far it has always worked fine for me.
I also use "caliper" grease i.e. the red stuff on brake cylinders to stop them seizing etc, But I must get some of this ceramic stuff.

According to this.

Grease Guide: What is Copper Grease Used For?

Copper grease is an anti seize compound designed to operate at extremes of temperature. It is often used to help prevent seizing and corrosion at high temperatures in the automotive industry. It is an ideal choice for use on wheel nuts & bolts, flanges, studs and exhaust brackets to prevent...

www.greasemonkeydirect.com

Copperslip is good for high temp applications. So I'll keep putting it on exhaust bits and pieces.

Thanks guys!!!

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likewise as also used to use copperslip until I got the disco and started to find out about the ceramic brake grease , this is the stuff I’ve been using with great results

Plus the red rubber grease

gstuart said:

likewise as also used to use copperslip until I got the disco and started to find out about the ceramic brake grease , this is the stuff I’ve been using with great results

Granville CERAMIC BRAKE Grease Car Caliper Pads Shoes Assembly Squeal Noise .CPâ 5020618008415 | eBay

Granville Car Aluminium Ceramic Brake Pads Shoes Components Grease Tub. Ceramic Brake Grease is free from copper additives and is suitable for use with aluminium brake components. Uses: Brake pad backing plates, brake shoe to cylinder seats.

www.ebay.co.uk

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LOL that stuff smells like nappys lol

KISSMYAURA said:

@gstuart you were spot on about the ABS n copperslip problems ! just read about it on the mintex website!

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oh wow, that was a good guess then , lol, suppose it was from my heating days where u had to be careful with conductive components etc so just wondered if the same could happen with brake sensors etc

with that in mind I now wonder where some people have been having issues after replacing the brakes and blamed it on the sensors ?

another reason I adore this forum where we can all come together as a collective library of knowledge in sharing things and most of all learning new things

plus just read this with regards to electrolysis , regarding copper slip and aluminium calipers

For harsh environments, as found around the brakes or road wheels of a motor vehicle, there should be no more than 0.15V difference between any two metals. In the case of cast iron and cast aluminium (materials often used for modern brake discs and calipers) you will see a voltage difference of just 0.10V therefore minimal corrosion will take place. However, if you compare cast aluminium and copper as found in copper grease, the voltage difference is now 0.60V. (0.95 – 0.35)

This voltage difference will cause a large galvanic reaction between the two metals causing the cast aluminium to dissolve to the copper, thus causing seized and damaged components. It is also worth noting that using copper grease even on cast iron calipers will still show a voltage difference of 0.50V so a significant reaction will still occur.

KISSMYAURA said:

LOL that stuff smells like nappys lol

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there was me thinking all along it was me when bolts were tight , lol

I'll read that thing from Mintex!

I started in 1972 and kept my tools in a cardboard box in the boot. Didn't even have a hydraulic jack. I was the only one in my family to use mechanical tools. And no one knew anything about lubricant beyond 3-in-1 oil!

I learned fast!

To think the rest of my family back oop norf were steam engineers. And great grandpa opened one of the first garages in Hull!

gstuart said:

oh wow, that was a good guess then , lol, suppose it was from my heating days where u had to be careful with conductive components etc so just wondered if the same could happen with brake sensors etc

with that in mind I now wonder where some people have been having issues after replacing the brakes and blamed it on the sensors ?

another reason I adore this forum where we can all come together as a collective library of knowledge in sharing things and most of all learning new things

plus just read this with regards to electrolysis , regarding copper slip and aluminium calipers

For harsh environments, as found around the brakes or road wheels of a motor vehicle, there should be no more than 0.15V difference between any two metals. In the case of cast iron and cast aluminium (materials often used for modern brake discs and calipers) you will see a voltage difference of just 0.10V therefore minimal corrosion will take place. However, if you compare cast aluminium and copper as found in copper grease, the voltage difference is now 0.60V. (0.95 – 0.35)

This voltage difference will cause a large galvanic reaction between the two metals causing the cast aluminium to dissolve to the copper, thus causing seized and damaged components. It is also worth noting that using copper grease even on cast iron calipers will still show a voltage difference of 0.50V so a significant reaction will still occur.

Why copper grease should not be used on the brakes of modern motor vehicles. | Pure Tyre 01603 462959

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Just think smoking was reccomended as a health benefit, and asbestos was safe..........years ago.
Hey Ho we lives and learns

KISSMYAURA said:

Just think smoking was reccomended as a health benefit, and asbestos was safe..........years ago.
Hey Ho we lives and learns

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Just read both the Mintex thing and this thing.

They do say opposite things. And I have to admit that the criticism of Copaslip because a mechanic might leave a pot open on the bench " it’s not uncommon to see a tin of copper slip sitting open on a mechanic’s bench, exposed to the elements. Should contamination from airborne dirt and moisture occur, the lubricant will become ineffective causing problems for the brakes." could be said about ANY type of grease.

Also knowing how an ABS sensor works, all the "electrics" i.e. a magnet that works on Hall effect, are inside the sensor so not open to being affected by copaslip.

The Copaslip thing says "The semi-synthetic base fluid is reinforced with anti-oxidants, corrosion inhibitors," so the Mintex thing saying it "can react with steel and aluminium" sounds like poop.

And lastly the heat thing. the Copaslip thing says "up to 1100 degs C." which is pretty high.
So I have to confess that the Mintex person seems to be getting a helping hand in his pocket and I am surprised that Molyslip haven't seen this and taken them for libel.

I have coppergrease here, but it is French stuff, so I cannot totally accurately compare it with Copaslip. but I could use my DMM on the Frog stuff to see if it actually does conduct electrickery.
We are going out in a mo but I'll do it tomoz.
Meantime others who have a tub/tube could try it and see!!

All this is very fascinating!!!!!!!!!

Aye it is that!
the pure tyre link above also has a pop about copperslip and erosion due to electickeryolosis lol, which they got from TEXtar who make Ceratec....
I guess copperslip is not a brand in itself (COPASLIP is) but every bugger makes it etc, anyway so any non metalic lube paste provider can slate it and sing thier own praises, but to be fair it does make sense.......
no smoke without fire.............................................except for smoke machines of course

So seeing I’ve ordered a brake kit have just ordered a new set of calliper slide pins front / rear as i would hate for the brakes to be apart and find them bad , at least then everything is covered as it includes all new calliper bolts

Know it’s not the same but As a side note use to see the effects of electrolytes where dissimilar metals would react within the plumbing / heating field , most common was a nail touching a copper pipe under the floor boards leading to the copper pipe suffering from pin holes

never forget a water softener had overdosed the salt content into a heating system, had totally ruined an aluminium heat exchanger

talking of brakes use to hear mixed reviews if a copper washer should be placed between the brake bleed nipple and caliper to reduce the dissimilar metals touching

plus 1 as also find all of this fascinating

gstuart said:

So seeing I’ve ordered a brake kit have just ordered a new set of calliper slide pins front / rear as i would hate for the brakes to be apart and find them bad , at least then everything is covered as it includes all new calliper bolts

Know it’s not the same but As a side note use to see the effects of electrolytes where dissimilar metals would react within the plumbing / heating field , most common was a nail touching a copper pipe under the floor boards leading to the copper pipe suffering from pin holes

never forget a water softener had overdosed the salt content into a heating system, had totally ruined an aluminium heat exchanger

talking of brakes use to hear mixed reviews if a copper washer should be placed between the brake bleed nipple and caliper to reduce the dissimilar metals touching

plus 1 as also find all of this fascinating

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mmmm like a sacrifical anode on a boat, but and its a bit but would not want it touching stuff i like lol !

Stanleysteamer said:

Just read both the Mintex thing and this thing.

COPASLIP™ Molyslip - High Performance Anti-seize Compound

COPASLIP™ a high-performance compound formulated to protect fasteners from seizure, reinforced with ultra-pure copper for added protection.

www.molyslip.co.uk

They do say opposite things. And I have to admit that the criticism of Copaslip because a mechanic might leave a pot open on the bench " it’s not uncommon to see a tin of copper slip sitting open on a mechanic’s bench, exposed to the elements. Should contamination from airborne dirt and moisture occur, the lubricant will become ineffective causing problems for the brakes." could be said about ANY type of grease.

Also knowing how an ABS sensor works, all the "electrics" i.e. a magnet that works on Hall effect, are inside the sensor so not open to being affected by copaslip.

The Copaslip thing says "The semi-synthetic base fluid is reinforced with anti-oxidants, corrosion inhibitors," so the Mintex thing saying it "can react with steel and aluminium" sounds like poop.

And lastly the heat thing. the Copaslip thing says "up to 1100 degs C." which is pretty high.
So I have to confess that the Mintex person seems to be getting a helping hand in his pocket and I am surprised that Molyslip haven't seen this and taken them for libel.

I have coppergrease here, but it is French stuff, so I cannot totally accurately compare it with Copaslip. but I could use my DMM on the Frog stuff to see if it actually does conduct electrickery.
We are going out in a mo but I'll do it tomoz.
Meantime others who have a tub/tube could try it and see!!

All this is very fascinating!!!!!!!!!

Click to expand...

Well, I’ve got some very old Comma copper grease and some not so old KSP (?) copper grease I thought I’d see what the conductivity was. Putting the meter probes in the grease gave no conductivity, resistance > 20 Meg Ohms, but as resistanc is dependant on cross sectional area of the “probes” and distance apart I ”made” a crude test jig with some sheet metal and a roofing clout as each electrode, with a dab of grease on the clout.

The Comma grease gave a minimum resistance of around 3 Meg Ohms at the smallest gap I could hold by hand but the KSP was again >20 Meg. As Mr Stanley said, all the ABS electrickery is insulated from the grease, and the resistance is high in comparison, there should be no problem.

PopPops said:

Well, I’ve got some very old Comma copper grease and some not so old KSP (?) copper grease I thought I’d see what the conductivity was. Putting the meter probes in the grease gave no conductivity, resistance > 20 Meg Ohms, but as resistanc is dependant on cross sectional area of the “probes” and distance apart I ”made” a crude test jig with some sheet metal and a roofing clout as each electrode, with a dab of grease on the clout.

The Comma grease gave a minimum resistance of around 3 Meg Ohms at the smallest gap I could hold by hand but the KSP was again >20 Meg. As Mr Stanley said, all the ABS electrickery is insulated from the grease, and the resistance is high in comparison, there should be no problem.

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perhaps we need to factor in the aluminium and the steel and salt water in the test, as in the articles, over time the carrier medium evaporates leaving the copper granules, which of course are about the best conductor around, ( dont think they make 'goldslip' yet PMLS)

KISSMYAURA said:

perhaps we need to factor in the aluminium and the steel and salt water in the test, as in the articles, over time the carrier medium evaporates leaving the copper granules, which of course are about the best conductor around, ( dont think they make 'goldslip' PMLS)

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lol to the goldslip

talking of sensors I assume a wheel speed sensor would be the most affected by copperslip

plus great point for example a winters day where it’s snowing along with salt on the road eating away at the aluminium

aye, been using ceramic stuff since my triumph resto days circa 1988 onwards then it was the white pishy nappy smelling stuff, now we have nice ceratec type stuf which is like honey or the blue moly stuff on the brush which is like thick paint, neither of which stanks. I due use the granville ceramic grease spray as a staple go to as well.

KISSMYAURA said:

aye, been using ceramic stuff since my triumph resto days circa 1988 onwards then it was the white pishy nappy smelling stuff, now we have nice ceratec type stuf which is like honey or the blue moly stuff on the brush which is like thick paint, neither of which stanks. I due use the granville ceramic grease spray as a staple go to as well.View attachment 293517

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many thks as good to know what more modern products are available

alas i don’t think i started using ceramic brake grease until roughly 2010 , plus Funny enough the other week I got some large plastic trays for storage / organisation etc and started collecting all my tins, greases, etc and filled up one very quickly , many of them were well past there use by date, was surprised of how many I had, lol

think I’ve just found the best colour for my callipers , just too much temptation leaving them as they are , yeh I know , lol

PopPops said:

Well, I’ve got some very old Comma copper grease and some not so old KSP (?) copper grease I thought I’d see what the conductivity was. Putting the meter probes in the grease gave no conductivity, resistance > 20 Meg Ohms, but as resistanc is dependant on cross sectional area of the “probes” and distance apart I ”made” a crude test jig with some sheet metal and a roofing clout as each electrode, with a dab of grease on the clout.

The Comma grease gave a minimum resistance of around 3 Meg Ohms at the smallest gap I could hold by hand but the KSP was again >20 Meg. As Mr Stanley said, all the ABS electrickery is insulated from the grease, and the resistance is high in comparison, there should be no problem.

Click to expand...

Thanks for doing that mate!
Very interesting. And shows how much bulldroppings gets said by people with an axe to grind or a backside to lick!